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  • dxmnkd316
    replied
    Originally posted by SJHovey View Post

    Who said it's bad? It's just not as good as combining them.
    He said, ownershiply

    Leave a comment:


  • MichVandal
    replied
    Originally posted by SJHovey View Post


    The only argument that I've heard used against it is that it encourages sick employees to come to work. I suppose that could happen, but it could also happen when you give an employee a set number of sick days and a set number of vacation days, and they've used all of their sick days and don't want to use their vacation days. In any event, we haven't had a problem with that.
    So if someone gets COVID, and they stay home for the prescribed time, then they lose vacation time. Maybe you haven't seen is as a problem for a reason.

    This whole pandemic should have reminded us that when we are sick, stay home. Good thing that there's good incentive to not lose possible vacation time.

    Leave a comment:


  • SJHovey
    replied
    Originally posted by MichVandal View Post

    At the same time, you suspect that people are taking vacations when they are calling in sick. So you worry if people are taking random days off. You did actually post that.

    The nice thing about separating the vacation from sick days is that I can schedule my vacation to the limit and not worry about getting sick. I'm betting that you have a lot of people taking time off in December, since they have so much left over- given you are forced to conserve days in case someone gets sick in your family.
    I don't have to worry anymore about whether people are actually sick or not. That's one of the reasons we did away with our old system 20 years ago.

    Invariably someone would call in sick, use one of their sick days we used to give them, and then two days later another employee would be in squealing, reporting that the "sick" employee was seen at Walmart or the movies or something. Honestly, I got "sick" of dealing with it.

    Here's the thing. For those places of employment that still separate sick days and vacation, practically speaking the employees are doing it my way, except they are only doing it halfway, and not to their benefit.

    If an employee gets 10 sick days, and uses them all up by August, what are they going to do when they get sick in November? They're going to use one of their vacation days, if they still have any left and if they want to get paid for the day they're gone. Thus, the employee essentially combines that vacation day into their sick days. Fine. Employers don't care.

    But employees never got to do it the other way. If they had only used 4 sick days up by December, those six days just sat there. Employees weren't allowed to just combine them with vacation days. They had to use them only when they were sick.

    My way is better.

    As for our experience with respect to taking time off, most employees will schedule a week or so sometime in the first 7-8 months of the year, I suppose for family vacations. Then, throughout the year, employees will sprinkle in days here and there, frequently to try to give themselves a three day or four day weekend.

    The experienced employees usually hang onto a few days for December, in case they get sick. If things are really busy and an employee has a couple of days that I haven't been able to let them have off, I'll let them use them up the next year. It actually has worked really great.

    The only argument that I've heard used against it is that it encourages sick employees to come to work. I suppose that could happen, but it could also happen when you give an employee a set number of sick days and a set number of vacation days, and they've used all of their sick days and don't want to use their vacation days. In any event, we haven't had a problem with that.

    Leave a comment:


  • MichVandal
    replied
    Originally posted by SJHovey View Post

    Who said it's bad? It's just not as good as combining them.

    Let's say I give you 10 paid sick days each year, and 15 paid vacation days each year.

    Now, let's say that instead of that I just give you 25 paid time off days to use for whatever reason you choose? Isn't that better for everyone involved? It's certainly better for me. I don't need to figure out if your are "sick" or not? All I need to know is whether you are coming to work. I don't care why.

    If the sick days are for use when you are actually sick, isn't my way better for you as well? Let's say you happen to be really healthy this year because you are sitting in your house wearing a mask 24/7. Instead of having only 15 days to take for personal time off or vacation, you can take all 25.

    I really don't get your logic on this. Since we made the change years ago, our employees wouldn't go back to the old way if we let them.
    At the same time, you suspect that people are taking vacations when they are calling in sick. So you worry if people are taking random days off. You did actually post that.

    The nice thing about separating the vacation from sick days is that I can schedule my vacation to the limit and not worry about getting sick. I'm betting that you have a lot of people taking time off in December, since they have so much left over- given you are forced to conserve days in case someone gets sick in your family.

    Leave a comment:


  • SJHovey
    replied
    Originally posted by MichVandal View Post

    You CAN separate sick days with vacation days. How is that bad?
    Who said it's bad? It's just not as good as combining them.

    Let's say I give you 10 paid sick days each year, and 15 paid vacation days each year.

    Now, let's say that instead of that I just give you 25 paid time off days to use for whatever reason you choose? Isn't that better for everyone involved? It's certainly better for me. I don't need to figure out if your are "sick" or not? All I need to know is whether you are coming to work. I don't care why.

    If the sick days are for use when you are actually sick, isn't my way better for you as well? Let's say you happen to be really healthy this year because you are sitting in your house wearing a mask 24/7. Instead of having only 15 days to take for personal time off or vacation, you can take all 25.

    I really don't get your logic on this. Since we made the change years ago, our employees wouldn't go back to the old way if we let them.

    Leave a comment:


  • MichVandal
    replied
    Originally posted by SJHovey View Post

    Listen, you figure out how to make things go by paying people not to work, I'll be the first guy in line to congratulate you and pat you on the back. Nobel Prize for you, as far as I'm concerned.

    But, until you do, I can't operate by paying people to not work, at least not beyond what I can offer for the four weeks or so of paid time off given to our employees. If they use their time but become sick at the end of the year, I'll give them the time off. But I can't pay them for it.
    You CAN separate sick days with vacation days. How is that bad?

    Leave a comment:


  • Swansong
    replied
    Hospitals never close, so we have one bucket of time off (PTO). Every holiday is a floater. Sick? Vacation? Christmas? Whatevs. Individual contributers earn x hours of PTO every week. I like it, personally. I took so little time off during the early months of the pandemic that I'm constantly pushing 400 hours of available time. It stops accruing at 500, so I just need to be on top of that.


    I do agree that companies that don't roll over vacation time (at least that) are bull****. Then those same companies **** and moan every December that everyone is out. Well, no ****.

    Leave a comment:


  • Slap Shot
    replied
    Our eldest just secured a paid internship for the summer with Abbot's engineering medical device division. That kid couldn't tie his shoes until he as 4. Haha.

    It's true kids can overcome their parents if they work hard enough. : ^ P

    Leave a comment:


  • Scarlet
    replied
    I had to go into our benefits system because when I was confirming my vacation time to jump into this conversation, I noticed I had more time than I realized. Turns out when I hit my 20 year anniversary in 2020, I got another week of vacation. No wonder why I had so much time left at the end of 2021. I was planning for lower number. No one told me that.

    Ours is called FTO (flexible time off) and it's also for any use - sick time, mental health days, doctor's appointments as well as vacation. Given my length of time at this company, I now get 6 weeks vacation. I also carry over 4 weeks because in the 22 years I've been here, I've never been able to use them all. I want to keep carrying over the 4 weeks because they could eliminate my job at any time I get that money as part of my severance. In addition to the 6 days, we get four personal holidays. So, I have 34 days to use or lose. This year I'm planning to take them all. I don't want to lose days like I did last year. Pre-pandemic, I was able to burn a lot with hockey trips. Hope that comes back next season!

    I think it's great that my company is generous with time but I feel I can never take a decent vacation without having to do something work related. We just had a team meeting and my manager, the one turning 40, told us she is off the week of 2/28 - her husband is flying her somewhere as a surprise, that she will be back home on March 2 but March 3 is her birthday but she's not logging in that day. Must be nice. Last fall I arranged to take my birthday off. It was on a Friday. I wound up having to go into the office for something at 8:30am that became a fire drill that didn't need to be.

    I need to get started on planning time off.....

    Leave a comment:


  • SJHovey
    replied
    Originally posted by Kepler View Post

    We know we are capital equipment. If it pains you that we don't love you for it, cash out. We can't, we have to work. For now.

    UBI is gonna make a lot of tin badge tyrants very unhappy.
    Listen, you figure out how to make things go by paying people not to work, I'll be the first guy in line to congratulate you and pat you on the back. Nobel Prize for you, as far as I'm concerned.

    But, until you do, I can't operate by paying people to not work, at least not beyond what I can offer for the four weeks or so of paid time off given to our employees. If they use their time but become sick at the end of the year, I'll give them the time off. But I can't pay them for it.

    Leave a comment:


  • dxmnkd316
    replied
    Originally posted by SJHovey View Post

    BS. It's an agreement. I agree that you don't have to lie to me about being sick, and you agree that I don't have to lie to you about believing your lie.
    Lying about sick time is the owner class equivalent to claims of voter fraud.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kepler
    replied
    Originally posted by SJHovey View Post

    BS. It's an agreement. I agree that you don't have to lie to me about being sick, and you agree that I don't have to lie to you about believing your lie.
    We know we are capital equipment. If it pains you that we don't love you for it, cash out. We can't, we have to work. For now.

    UBI is gonna make a lot of tin badge tyrants very unhappy.

    Leave a comment:


  • SJHovey
    replied
    Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post

    By combining vacation and sick time, the employer is directly implying being sick is equivalent to being on vacation.
    BS. It's an agreement. I agree that you don't have to lie to me about being sick, and you agree that I don't have to lie to you about believing your lie.

    Leave a comment:


  • St. Clown
    replied
    My employer sold off its Institutional Retirement area (think 401(k), etc.) nearly a couple years ago, and the actual movement of accounts and assets will take place over the 2/19 weekend. After so much time passing, you’d think they would be ready for any and all needs, but here I am, on PTO to take care of my daughter while she’s out of daycare until that weekend. Meanwhile, I’m the guy on my team who actually knows how to perform the SQL to do needed last-minute things that management has not yet considered. Good planning.

    Leave a comment:


  • Deutsche Gopher Fan
    replied
    Lack of a work ethic is related to managing time off? I missed weeks of work with Covid at the end of the year. Shame on me for taking some actual vacation that year but not holding onto 3 extra weeks in case I got sick.

    tbis country has really brainwashed people into thinking out system is good for people

    Leave a comment:

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