The States: Where We Wish Texas Would Secede Already

[Kepler]

Free markets are just the open exchange of goods. It's capitalism that leads to the production of those goods. Without capitalism, you're just swapping two goats for a cow in your free market.

No, capitalism is financing of production with independent investors. Production can be financed in other ways (government, anarcho-syndicalism, workers unions, granges, consumer unions). Independent financing sucks because it separates the interests of the financiers from the producers and consumers. Move financing power to the latter pair and the former is an unnecessary parasite. It is directly analogous to the persistence of a feudal aristocracy after they were displaced by technological and economic advances. We have now technologically and economically advanced to where the financial sector is an atavism that just immiserates the majority.

I still want you to keep whatever sweatshop you run. I assume from your statements that in addition to being the owner you are also the primary worker and producer of real value. That's A-OK with me, you're golden in my new world order.

I love Main Street. Wall Street has to die.

[SJHovey]

Capitalism is still inherently a problem because the people who do the work, make the product, and use the product don't own the materials, the patents, the fabrication infrastructure, the financing institutions, and the distribution system. This creates an inhumane condition in which the people doing all the work, and for whom the work is done, are dependent on an independent third party who has a massive power differential and can impose their will to the detriment of workers and consumers.

That is capitalism, and that is bad, so capitalism is bad.

Happily, there are many ways to have a free market system without capitalism. The free market works great as long as you control it. It is exactly like electricity -- you use the free market to organize and direct energy to do work, but you don't reify it as its own end. Nobody says "we can't have safety devices on electronics because electricity is its own good." It's just another tool.

Free markets are just the open exchange of goods. It's capitalism that leads to the production of those goods. Without capitalism, you're just swapping two goats for a cow in your free market.

[Kepler]

Capitalism is still inherently a problem because the people who do the work, make the product, and use the product don't own the materials, the patents, the fabrication infrastructure, the financing institutions, and the distribution system. This creates an inhumane condition in which the people doing all the work, and for whom the work is done, are dependent on an independent third party who has a massive power differential and can impose their will to the detriment of workers and consumers.

That is capitalism, and that is bad, so capitalism is bad.

Happily, there are many ways to have a free market system without capitalism. The free market works great as long as you control it. It is exactly like electricity -- you use the free market to organize and direct energy to do work, but you don't reify it as its own end. Nobody says "we can't have safety devices on electronics because electricity is its own good." It's just another tool.

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

I'm not arguing against Corporations or Capitalism in any way. You should know that. My problem is with the complete dereliction of duty on the guardrail side. We have a lack of good laws, a lack of oversight of those laws, and a complete lack of enforcement of any laws that we may have.

That's what is failing. Not Capitalism in general.

Regulations? Oversight? Taxes? What are you, some kind of lazy teenage stoner who doesn't want to work?!

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

I'm not arguing against Corporations or Capitalism in any way. You should know that. My problem is with the complete dereliction of duty on the guardrail side. We have a lack of good laws, a lack of oversight of those laws, and a complete lack of enforcement of any laws that we may have.

That's what is failing. Not Capitalism in general.

Well said. It’s telling the other side has nothing to say except durrhurrr you guys buy stuff . Lol

[aparch]

Nailed it Aparch. I have nothing to add. Just wanted to highlight it.

Oh, I forgot to add that State law supercedes Local government, so if the bill did pass, Nashville residents can't do dick about it.

[ScoobyDoo]

Nailed it Aparch. I have nothing to add. Just wanted to highlight it.

[aparch]

Two Tennessee state lawmakers have authored a bill to rename a section of local Nashville road "President Donald Trump Boulevard." Trump has no ties to that section of street, nor to the City of Nashville.

Just why is this noteworthy then? Because the section of road the lawmakers are proposing was *just* named "Rep. John Lewis Way,' in 2020 after his death, and was officially dedicated in 2021. That stretch of street highlighted where John Lewis started his "good trouble," where he famously started busting segregation in diners along the road, and where "Freedom Riders" boarded busses during the 1961 Civil Rights marches.

The cruelty is their point.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/n...ay-after-trump

Also, I'm pretty sure that article is now Illegal in Florida schools.

[ScoobyDoo]

Yeah, I get it. It's always dangerous to lump everyone together, although I don't think I'm alone here in that regard. That said, I find amusing the whole lament, "if I could just kill capitalism and corporations, and eliminate the need for my friends and I to work, we'd have so much more time to play video games together."

I'm not arguing against Corporations or Capitalism in any way. You should know that. My problem is with the complete dereliction of duty on the guardrail side. We have a lack of good laws, a lack of oversight of those laws, and a complete lack of enforcement of any laws that we may have.

That's what is failing. Not Capitalism in general.

[SJHovey]

Which means of course you purposefully don't read the comments by all the posters who acknowledge and rip that hypocrisy...

Not all of us rip corporate shills while having stock in Di$ney.

America's hypocrisy is why it is failing.

Yeah, I get it. It's always dangerous to lump everyone together, although I don't think I'm alone here in that regard. That said, I find amusing the whole lament, "if I could just kill capitalism and corporations, and eliminate the need for my friends and I to work, we'd have so much more time to play video games together."

[Handyman]

Hey, seems like the least I could do for you guys, especially given the endless amusement provided to me by posters here who, while drafting posts on their smartphones, laptops, tablets or desk top computers, constantly whine about corporations, profit motives, capitalism, etc..., but then want to talk about new tv shows to stream, ev cars, their new PS5, travel, etc...

Which means of course you purposefully don't read the comments by all the posters who acknowledge and rip that hypocrisy...

Not all of us rip corporate shills while having stock in Di$ney.

America's hypocrisy is why it is failing.

[SJHovey]

I appreciate your tidy summary of why a functioning democratic government needs to be strong. Thank you.

Hey, seems like the least I could do for you guys, especially given the endless amusement provided to me by posters here who, while drafting posts on their smartphones, laptops, tablets or desk top computers, constantly whine about corporations, profit motives, capitalism, etc..., but then want to talk about new tv shows to stream, ev cars, their new PS5, travel, etc...

[burd]

but then I am not an azzhole

?? Are you or are you not a Gopher hockey fan?

[Bronco]

It has nothing to do with being an azzhole. There are plenty of nice people who are also rich and/or powerful, but also still use that wealth and power to their advantage.

And I'm not just talking about getting away with murder or something, although if you want to get away with murder, having tons of money will help. It can be something as simple as getting a permit granted that might otherwise have been denied, getting access to the levers of power, money to pay for expensive accountants and lawyers, a million little things that will give you an advantage.

Honestly, if you have money and power and you don't take advantage of it, you're a fool. It would be like buying a new car, but then letting it just sit in your driveway.

If you have money and power, you want more money and power. That is not unique to any race, sex, political creed or otherwise. That is the simple truth, and the reason it's true is the advantages it will give you.

I appreciate your tidy summary of why a functioning democratic government needs to be strong. Thank you.

[SJHovey]

I could think of lots of things I could do that would not require it...but then I am not an azzhole (to their level) which is why I will never be rich and powerful.

It has nothing to do with being an azzhole. There are plenty of nice people who are also rich and/or powerful, but also still use that wealth and power to their advantage.

And I'm not just talking about getting away with murder or something, although if you want to get away with murder, having tons of money will help. It can be something as simple as getting a permit granted that might otherwise have been denied, getting access to the levers of power, money to pay for expensive accountants and lawyers, a million little things that will give you an advantage.

Honestly, if you have money and power and you don't take advantage of it, you're a fool. It would be like buying a new car, but then letting it just sit in your driveway.

If you have money and power, you want more money and power. That is not unique to any race, sex, political creed or otherwise. That is the simple truth, and the reason it's true is the advantages it will give you.