The States: Where We Wish Texas Would Secede Already

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: The States: Where We Wish Texas Would Secede Already

I was forced to read The Old Man and the Sea and literally wanted to murder everyone in my school.

You're a Hemmingway Hater aren't you? It's cool, I feel the same way about Steinbeck.

[Jimjamesak]

Re: The States: Where We Wish Texas Would Secede Already

I hated Gatsby but for some reason I still have a fondness for The Outsiders of all things.

[Kepler]

Re: The States: Where We Wish Texas Would Secede Already

You're a Hemmingway Hater aren't you? It's cool, I feel the same way about Steinbeck.

I think we talked about this, but as an Extreme Steinbeck Hater I strongly recommend Cannery Row. It's beautiful and it rolls along unlike everything else by him I have attempted.

For Hemingway I keep giving him a chance. In theory he should be fantastic. His early stuff, anyway. His late stuff is drivel -- like Fitzgerald he got high on his own supply -- and also like Fitzgerald being a raging alcoholic may be great for a painter but it's terrible for a writer.

[The Rube]

Re: The States: Where We Wish Texas Would Secede Already

Movies are an easier, more passive experience. But comparing the value of movies to good nonfiction (distinguishing between a Michael Connelly novel, as fun as many of them are, and Native Son, for instance) is a little bit like comparing the understanding of a place which you get from a bus tour to that which you would get from living there. There are high quality bus tours, and there are good reasons why a person would choose to go that route under certain circumstances, but they are a brief, passive experience at best.

I understand you are just saying you get more enjoyment out of movies than you do from nonfiction books, not that one has intrinsically more value than the other, Rube. But I throw those thoughts out there because we are talking about the value to our children of the books being banned.

No book should be banned. Every book, no matter how "evil" or "wrong," contains lessons to be learned from it. One could write "How To Be An Uber-Nazi Warmonger," and one could use that to teach others why it would be wrong to be one.

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The States: Where We Wish Texas Would Secede Already

Dickens is the blurst. I read two pages of David Copperfield and knew I was reading dreck. I tried to bull-hit my way through the tests and about halfway through my teacher asked if I’m even reading the book. I should have answered him truthfully and told him it was garbage. Find something more interesting.

Force fed novels are the literary equivalent of canned green beans, carrots, and broccoli. “They’re good for you!”

A book can be amazing. But for the love of god, do better. Find a better way for a young adult to appreciate fiction. Offer choices. And if a kid is obviously not reading the assignment, give him another option. Don’t beat him over the head with it. It’s obviously not engaging. The worst thing you can do is teach a kid to hate books.

Despite being taught to read by three, I didn’t enjoy reading for pleasure (or eating vegetables for that matter) until well after college. What a waste.

[The Rube]

Re: The States: Where We Wish Texas Would Secede Already

Added: when I was younger, I did more fiction books (on my own). I read Shogun in 4th grade, and was a huge Stephen King fan (pretty much every book report I did, was on King).
Once I got to high school, outside of assigned reading, that's when I veered into non-fiction.

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: The States: Where We Wish Texas Would Secede Already

I think we talked about this, but as an Extreme Steinbeck Hater I strongly recommend Cannery Row. It's beautiful and it rolls along unlike everything else by him I have attempted.

For Hemingway I keep giving him a chance. In theory he should be fantastic. His early stuff, anyway. His late stuff is drivel -- like Fitzgerald he got high on his own supply -- and also like Fitzgerald being a raging alcoholic may be great for a painter but it's terrible for a writer.

Early Hemingway (20s/30s) is great. By the time you get to the 40s/50s he's a raging alcoholic and, unfortunately, it shows.

[Kepler]

Re: The States: Where We Wish Texas Would Secede Already

I have read 1000 page books on WWI on the beach while on vacation but I doubt I could read Gatsby again even in the best of conditions.

I'll bet you could. Gatsby is my favorite novel but up through age 39 I would not have understood it emotionally. Gatsby is a book about loss and maturity, and it simply will not mean anything to a person who has not experienced either. It is a book for grownups, like almost all great books.

Many books change so much as you change. The mark of great books is they are inexhaustible. I have and will read Gatsby every 3-5 years because every time I read it it is deeper and more real.

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Dickens is the blurst. I read two pages of David Copperfield and knew I was reading dreck. I tried to bull-hit my way through the tests and about halfway through my teacher asked if I’m even reading the book. I should have answered him truthfully and told him it was garbage. Find something more interesting.

Force fed novels are the literary equivalent of canned green beans, carrots, and broccoli. “They’re good for you!”

A book can be amazing. But for the love of god, do better. Find a better way for a young adult to appreciate fiction. Offer choices. And if a kid is obviously not reading the assignment, give him another option. Don’t beat him over the head with it. It’s obviously not engaging. The worst thing you can do is teach a kid to hate books.

Despite being taught to read by three, I didn’t enjoy reading for pleasure (or eating vegetables for that matter) until well after college. What a waste.

I hated dickens. Didn’t even like first 100 pages of ATOTC, but pushed through and it became one of my all time favorites

[The Rube]

Re: The States: Where We Wish Texas Would Secede Already

Dickens is the blurst. I read two pages of David Copperfield and knew I was reading dreck. I tried to bull-hit my way through the tests and about halfway through my teacher asked if I’m even reading the book. I should have answered him truthfully and told him it was garbage. Find something more interesting.

Force fed novels are the literary equivalent of canned green beans, carrots, and broccoli. “They’re good for you!”

A book can be amazing. But for the love of god, do better. Find a better way for a young adult to appreciate fiction. Offer choices. And if a kid is obviously not reading the assignment, give him another option. Don’t beat him over the head with it. It’s obviously not engaging. The worst thing you can do is teach a kid to hate books.

Despite being taught to read by three, I didn’t enjoy reading for pleasure (or eating vegetables for that matter) until well after college. What a waste.

There was some book club thing or something when I was in grade school. You could choose the book you wanted to read, and based on difficulty (reading level per your age), it was rated 1-4 stars. The harder books got 4 stars. Subject matter wasn't relevant. It was simply expected reading level and what you were reading. Had to write a review of the book and what you took from it.

For every 20 stars, IIRC, you got a free personal pan pizza from a local place.

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

There was some book club thing or something when I was in grade school. You could choose the book you wanted to read, and based on difficulty (reading level per your age), it was rated 1-4 stars. The harder books got 4 stars. Subject matter wasn't relevant. It was simply expected reading level and what you were reading. Had to write a review of the book and what you took from it.

For every 20 stars, IIRC, you got a free personal pan pizza from a local place.

I got kicked out if that program because I read way, way too much.

[The Rube]

Re: The States: Where We Wish Texas Would Secede Already

I got kicked out if that program because I read way, way too much.

That's friggin' classic, I have to admit.

[Kepler]

Re: The States: Where We Wish Texas Would Secede Already

Dickens is the blurst. I read two pages of David Copperfield and knew I was reading dreck. I tried to bull-hit my way through the tests and about halfway through my teacher asked if I’m even reading the book. I should have answered him truthfully and told him it was garbage. Find something more interesting.

Force fed novels are the literary equivalent of canned green beans, carrots, and broccoli. “They’re good for you!”

A book can be amazing. But for the love of god, do better. Find a better way for a young adult to appreciate fiction. Offer choices. And if a kid is obviously not reading the assignment, give him another option. Don’t beat him over the head with it. It’s obviously not engaging. The worst thing you can do is teach a kid to hate books.

Despite being taught to read by three, I didn’t enjoy reading for pleasure (or eating vegetables for that matter) until well after college. What a waste.

Great teachers can teach a love of books. I am convinced in HS it isn't the book itself, it's the teacher. I had an amazing HS English teacher who could assign the hardest material and make it an adventure and an exploration. Reading Aeschylus in high school was like free soloing. And I still carry the attitudes I internalized about reading stuff seven stories above my head. Fighting to understand just feels like the peak one can be.

It isn't that "it's good for you." It's that it builds muscles. Trying to read Oedipus at Colonus when you're used to watching teevee is learning to be a fully formed human being with an expanded brain and soul. It's the same as the hardest problem on the problem set teaching you the most, even if you don't get it, as long as you break your head against it as honestly and as hard as you can. As long as you leave everything on the ice.

[The Rube]

Re: The States: Where We Wish Texas Would Secede Already

Great teachers can teach a love of books. I am convinced it isn't the book itself, it's the teacher. I had an amazing HS English teacher who could assign the hardest material and make it an adventure and an exploration. Reading Aeschylus in high school was like free soloing. And I still carry the attitudes I internalized about reading stuff seven stories above my head. Fighting to understand just feels like the peak one can be.

It isn't that "it's good for you." It's that it builds muscles. Trying to read Oedipus at Colonus when you're used to watching teevee is learning to be a fully formed human being with an expanded brain and soul. It's the same as the hardest problem on the problem set teaching you the most, even if you don't get it, as long as you break your head against it as honestly and as hard as you can. As long as you leave everything on the ice.

Rubin : What class is that again?

Josh : Ancient philosophy.

Rubin : Well I can teach you ancient philosophy in 46 hours.

Josh : Really?

Rubin : Yeah, I can teach Japanese to a monkey in 46 hours. The key is just finding a way to relate to the material.

Rubin: Socrates, he was like the Vince McMahon of philosophy.

(c) Road Trip

[Kepler]

Re: The States: Where We Wish Texas Would Secede Already

Rubin : What class is that again?

Josh : Ancient philosophy.

Rubin : Well I can teach you ancient philosophy in 46 hours.

Josh : Really?

Rubin : Yeah, I can teach Japanese to a monkey in 46 hours. The key is just finding a way to relate to the material.

Rubin: Socrates, he was like the Vince McMahon of philosophy.

(c) Road Trip

For us Olds.