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The States: Where We Wish Texas Would Secede Already

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  • Originally posted by Deutsche Gopher Fan View Post
    Texas proposing extra taxes on electric vehicles because they don’t pay the gas tAx.

    if they need revenue maybe start taxing gun ownership

    https://thehill.com/changing-america...IoPt3NGRIU_Ic8
    I didn't see it in the article, but the argument for extra taxes on electric vehicles that gets bandied about here (Colorado) is that the gas tax is what partly/largely/solely (???) funds road improvement/maintenance projects. Electric vehicles obviously don't pay the gas tax, but they do use/benefit from the roads. Some have pushed for eliminating the gas tax (or at least the portion tied to road improvement projects), and simply charging a "use" tax on all vehicles based on the mileage driven by the vehicle during the prior year.

    I don't really know much about this topic to accurately comment on how strong or weak of an argument that is, but at least on the surface it makes some sense.
    North Dakota
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    • Originally posted by Fighting Sioux 23 View Post

      I didn't see it in the article, but the argument for extra taxes on electric vehicles that gets bandied about here (Colorado) is that the gas tax is what partly/largely/solely (???) funds road improvement/maintenance projects. Electric vehicles obviously don't pay the gas tax, but they do use/benefit from the roads. Some have pushed for eliminating the gas tax (or at least the portion tied to road improvement projects), and simply charging a "use" tax on all vehicles based on the mileage driven by the vehicle during the prior year.

      I don't really know much about this topic to accurately comment on how strong or weak of an argument that is, but at least on the surface it makes some sense.
      Of course it makes some sense at a base level and I think there’s one D in Texas supporting this. But we overall don’t incent enough to go electric and you know Texas doesn’t want to support electric over oil. Despite welcoming Elon.

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      • Originally posted by Deutsche Gopher Fan View Post

        Of course it makes some sense at a base level and I think there’s one D in Texas supporting this. But we overall don’t incent enough to go electric and you know Texas doesn’t want to support electric over oil. Despite welcoming Elon.
        I agree with you about incentivizing electric more. Same with Texas having issues.

        And again, I'm not someone who has a lot of knowledge on this specific area, but if the idea is to have more and more electric vehicles on the roads (I think we both agree with this), then the structure of the "gas tax" would seemingly need to change to a "use tax." (Again, this is making the assumption that the gas tax is what partly/largely/solely (???) funds road improvement/maintenance projects.) I'm guessing that is what Texas is recognizing...and the thought of "punishing" electric vehicle owners is just a bonus.

        I know this has been starting to get pushed in Colorado (also an oil-friendly state). Are other states proposing similar/other solutions?
        North Dakota
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        • Originally posted by Fighting Sioux 23 View Post
          I know this has been starting to get pushed in Colorado (also an oil-friendly state). Are other states proposing similar/other solutions?
          Illinois floated the idea as a talking point and it was soundly torpedoed. At least with Illinois or any other state that has Toll Highways, you already *pay* for the road improvement via the tolls. The money raised from a gas tax doesn't go toward the maintenance or construction of toll highways.

          Oregon has a pilot program right now (since 2015) that drivers can opt into reporting their mileage, with a credit from any gas tax paid, but they have had very little interest from citizens. Washington State is looking into it.

          My issues with it include how it's tracked, how out of state mileage is calculated, and how tollway mileage is separated out.
          “Demolish the bridges behind you… then there is no choice but to build again.”

          Live Radio from 100.3

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          • Originally posted by aparch View Post
            Illinois floated the idea as a talking point and it was soundly torpedoed. At least with Illinois or any other state that has Toll Highways, you already *pay* for the road improvement via the tolls. The money raised from a gas tax doesn't go toward the maintenance or construction of toll highways.

            Oregon has a pilot program right now (since 2015) that drivers can opt into reporting their mileage, with a credit from any gas tax paid, but they have had very little interest from citizens. Washington State is looking into it.

            My issues with it include how it's tracked, how out of state mileage is calculated, and how tollway mileage is separated out.
            That is an interesting point pertaining to the toll roads. Colorado has a few toll roads, and the tolls collected help pay for the improvement/maintenance...to those toll roads (again, this is based off my limited understanding of the subject...which is based a lot on hearsay and limited discussions with legislators at a few luncheons).

            In Illinois, what does the money raised from the gas tax go towards?
            North Dakota
            National Champions: 1959, 1963, 1980, 1982, 1987, 1997, 2000, 2016

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            • Originally posted by Fighting Sioux 23 View Post

              That is an interesting point pertaining to the toll roads. Colorado has a few toll roads, and the tolls collected help pay for the improvement/maintenance...to those toll roads (again, this is based off my limited understanding of the subject...which is based a lot on hearsay and limited discussions with legislators at a few luncheons).

              In Illinois, what does the money raised from the gas tax go towards?
              Best answer I can find is that it gets divided up into three separate funds: state funding (IDOT), local municipalities (County, City), local transit (CTA (busses/"L" line), Metra, PACE) (all public transportation).

              There was a vote a few years back to prevent the diversion of funds from the tax into anything other than transportation infrastructure. But with the adoption of electric vehicles and much better fuel efficiencies, alternatives are being looked at.

              Currently passenger cars/trucks cost $151 for license plate renewal. Electric vehicles are charged $251 per year for registration, the extra $100 going toward the lost fuel tax.
              “Demolish the bridges behind you… then there is no choice but to build again.”

              Live Radio from 100.3

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              • Congrats Mississippi.

                https://mobile.twitter.com/jonrog1/s...80543963701251

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                • Originally posted by Fighting Sioux 23 View Post

                  I agree with you about incentivizing electric more. Same with Texas having issues.

                  And again, I'm not someone who has a lot of knowledge on this specific area, but if the idea is to have more and more electric vehicles on the roads (I think we both agree with this), then the structure of the "gas tax" would seemingly need to change to a "use tax." (Again, this is making the assumption that the gas tax is what partly/largely/solely (???) funds road improvement/maintenance projects.) I'm guessing that is what Texas is recognizing...and the thought of "punishing" electric vehicle owners is just a bonus.

                  I know this has been starting to get pushed in Colorado (also an oil-friendly state). Are other states proposing similar/other solutions?
                  Easy solution: tax gas MORE, until the last SOB driving a Hummer has to pay for all of the roads. Problem solved.
                  If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

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                  • Originally posted by LynahFan View Post

                    Easy solution: tax gas MORE, until the last SOB driving a Hummer has to pay for all of the roads. Problem solved.
                    Then how do we pay to improve/maintain the roads?

                    It would also probably cause prices for most goods shipped via ground transportation to skyrocket. At least until electric semis become realistic and affordable.
                    North Dakota
                    National Champions: 1959, 1963, 1980, 1982, 1987, 1997, 2000, 2016

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                    • Originally posted by Fighting Sioux 23 View Post

                      Then how do we pay to improve/maintain the roads?
                      You’re not getting it. If gas tax receipts drop 5% this year, raise the rates 5% next year to keep the gas tax *revenue* flat. Roads are paid for by the people still driving gas vehicles - there will just be fewer and fewer of them.

                      It would also probably cause prices for most goods shipped via ground transportation to skyrocket. At least until electric semis become realistic and affordable.
                      All I read is “Wouldn’t it be horrible if the externalities of gasoline had to be paid by the people using it rather than continuing to be subsidized by society?”
                      If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

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                      • Originally posted by LynahFan View Post

                        You’re not getting it. If gas tax receipts drop 5% this year, raise the rates 5% next year to keep the gas tax *revenue* flat. Roads are paid for by the people still driving gas vehicles - there will just be fewer and fewer of them.



                        All I read is “Wouldn’t it be horrible if the externalities of gasoline had to be paid by the people using it rather than continuing to be subsidized by society?”
                        But this isn't about the externalities of gasoline, it's about the externalities of driving.

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                          • Originally posted by jerphisch View Post

                            But this isn't about the externalities of gasoline, it's about the externalities of driving.
                            This ontology?

                            I must know.
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                            • Originally posted by jerphisch View Post

                              But this isn't about the externalities of gasoline, it's about the externalities of driving.
                              Maybe for you. No reason it has to be. Gas tax should be viewed as a sin tax, not a user fee.
                              If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

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                              • Originally posted by LynahFan View Post

                                You’re not getting it. If gas tax receipts drop 5% this year, raise the rates 5% next year to keep the gas tax *revenue* flat. Roads are paid for by the people still driving gas vehicles - there will just be fewer and fewer of them.

                                All I read is “Wouldn’t it be horrible if the externalities of gasoline had to be paid by the people using it rather than continuing to be subsidized by society?”
                                I'm all for raising the gas tax; the federal one hasn't been raised in something like 20 years.

                                But electric vehicles still put wear and tear on the roads. It's not wholly without merit to try to get them to pay into the highway fund through alternative means.

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