The GQP Thread: I'm even sick of that ****** number and, anyway, he's gone (for now)

[ScoobyDoo]

I could swear I recently heard (on Last Week Tonight or maybe Axios) that climate is a popular topic and even more and more republican voters agree it's an issue.

[edit] This isn't very recent (June 2020) but:

Two-Thirds of Americans Think Government Should Do More on Climate
Bipartisan backing for carbon capture tax credits, extensive tree-planting efforts

What the people want (even republican voters) and what the Republicans do while in power are two different things. Universal Background checks have ~90% support across the board. It will never pass. And Manchin all by himself has destroyed any movement on climate anyway. No Republicans needed.

[Slap Shot]

What the people want (even republican voters) and what the Republicans do while in power are two different things. Universal Background checks have ~90% support across the board. It will never pass. And Manchin all by himself has destroyed any movement on climate anyway. No Republicans needed.

That wasn't the argument being made I replied to.

[psych]

Yeah we get that...the problem is the Dems don't.

There are ways to get Manchin to vote for Infrastructure because WV needs that money and even the GOP there had it polling high. At one point their Governor was saying they want it. All politics is local the Dems should be destroying him with ads there and nationally. Instead of the GOP making Biden the face of inaction you make him the face of it. (Sinema already is which is why her support in her home state is falling faster than Trump's IQ after sundown) West Virginians need jobs and their Senator is why they don't have them.

Now, this is where I will note that the "liberal" Press is not helping here. Giving him a platform to spew his BS without rebuttal needs to end. That goes for all of them especially CNN and Chucky Todd at MSNBC.

The Dems aren't playing the right game. They think it is 1992 and the differences can be hashed out over drinks in smoke filled rooms away from the prying eyes of the people. They are playing like it is week 8 of the season and there is always a game next week. They don't realize it is the playoffs and they are losing in the 4th quarter and the clock is running. They need to govern like their hair is on fire.

Except all politics isn’t local anymore. It’s been nationalized for nearly two decades now, at least for House/Senate races. Bernie Sanders basically told West Virginians in their newspaper that Manchin isn’t helping them, and Manchin told him to shut the **** up. What’s happened since then? West Virginians vote GOP. They hate outstaters because outstaters think they’re dumb**** fat redneck methheads. Democrats making Manchin the face of inaction in West Virginia would do absolutely ****ing nothing to move the needle on Manchin voting “yes” on a larger reconciliation bill. In fact, it would do the opposite. When he says he knows his constituents better than us, he’s not wrong. Joe Manchin is not going to be cowed by Bernie Sanders or others telling him to vote for the bigger bill. Democrats offered him millions to switch coal plants over to clean energy plants, and provide money to those coal workers until they could start their jobs as renewable energy workers, etc. Manchin called it “welfare” and added an “oh, **** you.” You think an educational video on how Manchin is wrong from elitist outstater intellectual a—holes is going to change their minds, much less Manchin’s? Please. There is no West Virginia Democratic apparatus anymore to even be effective at making that play.
Sinema’s numbers are dropping because Arizona is purple and has way more Democrats who are able to effectively recognize and relay the message that she’s a ****ing piece of garbage than West Virginia does Manchin. She either doesn’t recognize the threat, doesn’t care, or thinks Republicans will vote for her against a Republican again come 2024. She’s wrong, but she’ll **** around and find out come then.

[ScoobyDoo]

That wasn't the argument being made I replied to.

Then I guess I don't understand the argument. Even if Dems were fighting tooth and nail right now for climate it wouldn't make any difference. Polling might matter a little come election time but it has nothing to do with what actually gets done in Congress. Even at the State level.

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

I could swear I recently heard (on Last Week Tonight or maybe Axios) that climate is a popular topic and even more and more republican voters agree it's an issue.

[edit] This isn't very recent (June 2020) but:

Two-Thirds of Americans Think Government Should Do More on Climate
Bipartisan backing for carbon capture tax credits, extensive tree-planting efforts

But a handful of cornpones in Flyoverland and oil companies don't agree, and thanks to the Senate they have more voting power than those of us who live and work in cities.

[ScoobyDoo]

She either doesn’t recognize the threat, doesn’t care, or thinks Republicans will vote for her against a Republican again come 2024. She’s wrong, but she’ll **** around and find out come then.

She doesn't care. She's already measuring the drapes for her next job.

[psych]

She doesn't care. She's already measuring the drapes for her next job.

I always thought just offering Manchin millions more for West Virginia would help get him on board. I was wrong, but I can understand his reticence, based on his state’s +35R lean. I think he’s ****ed in 2024 regardless, but at least he’s trying to save his own skin. I would point to Tester in Montana as the antithesis of Joe Manchin, but whatever. Manchin ain’t changing.
Sinema? I can’t even explain the depths of disappointment I have for her. If she was Mark Kelly, the taxation plan would be much stronger in this bill. Manchin is to the ****ing left of Sinema on taxes. Ridiculous.

[ScoobyDoo]

I always thought just offering Manchin millions more for West Virginia would help get him on board. I was wrong, but I can understand his reticence, based on his state’s +35R lean. I think he’s ****ed in 2024 regardless, but at least he’s trying to save his own skin. I would point to Tester in Montana as the antithesis of Joe Manchin, but whatever. Manchin ain’t changing.
Sinema? I can’t even explain the depths of disappointment I have for her. If she was Mark Kelly, the taxation plan would be much stronger in this bill. Manchin is to the ****ing left of Sinema on taxes. Ridiculous.

I do not understand the dynamic. Sinema is blowing a real shot she has of staying in the job and Manchin is blowing his legacy to keep a job he doesn't need in a State that doesn't care about him anymore. I don't get it.

[dxmnkd316]

There is no process as long as you coddle people like Manchin. As long as he and Sinema are there and have no fear the Titanic already hit the iceburg and we are all just moving chairs around.

Look any other time in history (short of the prelude to the Civil War) I 100% agree with you. Hell half the time I would argue it is GOOD nothing gets done because the Senate is just a cluster**** of stupidity and Washington is completely out of touch. We aren't there anymore though even Biden has finally started to realize that. Committees don't matter if what they push forward have no chance to pass. Outside of some judges what has been accomplished? Nothing. What will be accomplished before the Midterms? Most likely nothing.

Manchin goes on every Sunday show and says crap that is so moronic it makes all our heads spin but he is the guy we need to lower the Party to? Then we do, he still burns us and we have to do it all over again? Democrats don't get it, they never get it. Just like they count on people like Susan Collins to "do the right thing" and then are shocked when she votes like a Republican. These people have shown us who they are...Manchin and Sinema are not on our side. They don't pretend to be anymore. There is no bribe that is worth more than what the lobbyists give them and no one even attempts to put any pressure on them to side with their party. So the people lose and all they think is "The Dems promised us everything, we got nothing...so why vote for them again?".

To play off a point Scooby mentioned...Manchin held Voting Rights hostage to work with Republicans. He negotiated, thought he was close and McConnell assassinated him on live TV over it saying not one Republican will vote for the watered down version Manchin negotiated with those Republicans. It was so brutal some in the Press thought that would be the lightbulb moment where he would wake up and realize this isn't working. Nope. Then the Nuclear Wing decided to blow up the one bill that did get negotiated (Infrastructure) and here we sit with what is likely a lame duck Dem control and the Fascists just smiling knowing their path has almost no road blocks anymore. But hey...we got that chair of Ways and Means and Intelligence!!

You seem to think America is better than what came before it. That we somehow won't make the same mistakes every great Republic/Empire made over the centuries. Problem is we already are making them/made them and our arrogance and naivete is so historically cliche predictable is too nice a word for it. At first I kind of started to agree with SJHovey that I was a bit too paranoid...then I had a conversation with my father who is an optimist and truly believed (until 4 months ago) the system will not allow for it all to fall apart. He now believes we are already too far down the road to Authoritarianism. History is filled this exact story all you need to do is pick an Empire and read about its downfall. Always strikingly similar the only difference is which side is responsible.

I will say it again I hope I am wrong. I hope you and unofan are right and that by protecting Manchin it is helping in some capacity. Nothing would make me happier than if next year you are throwing it in my face how misguided and stupid my line of thinking was. (cause that means the Dems held control and likely expanded it) The problem is history doesn't bear that out too often and considering half of Republicans and a third of Biden voters seem to want a divided country (not like we joke about...legit secession) we likely won't get another shot at this. We said when Biden got elected we have 4 years to fix as much of what is broken as we can. In 10 months we have fixed nothing long term and next year could get ugly even without the Elections. Right now I think the only thing that can save us is if the SC overturns Roe because that might be the final straw for all Dems. Even that might not do it though...please let me be wrong.

I ask again, what can democrats do differently?

you keep saying this isn't a wartime approach and we need to do something about it. What?

[Slap Shot]

Then I guess I don't understand the argument. Even if Dems were fighting tooth and nail right now for climate it wouldn't make any difference. Polling might matter a little come election time but it has nothing to do with what actually gets done in Congress. Even at the State level.

Fight for it come campaign time. jfc

[dxmnkd316]

I always thought just offering Manchin millions more for West Virginia would help get him on board. I was wrong, but I can understand his reticence, based on his state’s +35R lean. I think he’s ****ed in 2024 regardless, but at least he’s trying to save his own skin. I would point to Tester in Montana as the antithesis of Joe Manchin, but whatever. Manchin ain’t changing.
Sinema? I can’t even explain the depths of disappointment I have for her. If she was Mark Kelly, the taxation plan would be much stronger in this bill. Manchin is to the ****ing left of Sinema on taxes. Ridiculous.

I figured that was the case as well. It's always been enough.

i don't know what changed. It's almost like a personal vendetta at this point. I have to wonder if someone royally ****ed him off or if he actually thinks he can fix politics.

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Roll your wheelchair off a cliff you ****stain

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1...558517766?s=21

[Handyman]

Except all politics isn’t local anymore. It’s been nationalized for nearly two decades now, at least for House/Senate races. Bernie Sanders basically told West Virginians in their newspaper that Manchin isn’t helping them, and Manchin told him to shut the **** up. What’s happened since then? West Virginians vote GOP. They hate outstaters because outstaters think they’re dumb**** fat redneck methheads. Democrats making Manchin the face of inaction in West Virginia would do absolutely ****ing nothing to move the needle on Manchin voting “yes” on a larger reconciliation bill. In fact, it would do the opposite. When he says he knows his constituents better than us, he’s not wrong. Joe Manchin is not going to be cowed by Bernie Sanders or others telling him to vote for the bigger bill. Democrats offered him millions to switch coal plants over to clean energy plants, and provide money to those coal workers until they could start their jobs as renewable energy workers, etc. Manchin called it “welfare” and added an “oh, **** you.” You think an educational video on how Manchin is wrong from elitist outstater intellectual a—holes is going to change their minds, much less Manchin’s? Please. There is no West Virginia Democratic apparatus anymore to even be effective at making that play.
Sinema’s numbers are dropping because Arizona is purple and has way more Democrats who are able to effectively recognize and relay the message that she’s a ****ing piece of garbage than West Virginia does Manchin. She either doesn’t recognize the threat, doesn’t care, or thinks Republicans will vote for her against a Republican again come 2024. She’s wrong, but she’ll **** around and find out come then.

Stop using Bernie as your example...he has zero power or authority and Manchin would get skewered listening to him. It's Schumer and Durbin who have to do it.

[Handyman]

That wasn't the argument being made I replied to.

They support climate help if it didn't hurt their bottom line. Most polling only asks if they think something should be done or rarely asks if they are willing to sacrifice to make it happen.

Plus the last 5 years have shown people just flat out lie to pollsters. I do appreciate your data though :^)

[Handyman]

Fight for it come campaign time. jfc

That won't work. Republican voters won't flip over Climate even if they support it. They will still vote straight ticket. Manchin and any Rust Belt Dem won't stick their neck out beyond platitudes either.

Climate won't move the needle in the current political environment sadly.