Open Wheel Racing 2021, anyone there to watch?

[MichVandal]

I thought the whole idea of Andretti was to capitalize on DTS and finally gain a big F1 following in the US market. For that, they don't need any profile outside the US. F1 is already big in the rest of the world (at least, the rest of the world that has money). The US is the final frontier.

On the flip side, there's a huge F1 following in the US already. It's just so spread out that not many understand that. What's missing is US corporate dollars. And remember US business is more about raw profit than everything else, so BOD's are more likely to hand out bonuses than advertise in F1.

[Kepler]

On the flip side, there's a huge F1 following in the US already. It's just so spread out that not many understand that. What's missing is US corporate dollars. And remember US business is more about raw profit than everything else, so BOD's are more likely to hand out bonuses than advertise in F1.

Is US business demonstrably more short-sighted than anywhere else? I think of this as a Capitalism problem, not an American problem.

I'm not arguing there aren't millions of F1 fans. But The Plan is for that to be a hundred million. We are definitely nowhere near that yet. I can turn to a random dude in a random bar and talk about the NFL and have a 90% chance he'll engage. 70% for NASCAR or NBA (except I wouldn't). 50% for MLB. 20% for NHL. For F1, that number is still in the single digits.

[MichVandal]

Is US business demonstrably more short-sighted than anywhere else? I think of this as a Capitalism problem, not an American problem.

Is that a serious question? US laws make it worse, as tax laws allow for almost unlimited stock options, and that results in pushes to raise the stock price as fast as possible. Which leads to very short sighted decisions.

It's a US capitalism problem.

The rest of the world capitalism isn't perfect by any measure, but the US has a pretty unique problem between the top and bottom income gap. Which is partially why I really can't take GM seriously.

[solovsfett]

I still think that the Andretti value is being overstated outside of the US. It's there, but there are far bigger names out there- like Prost (who's team struggled). And while the conjecture is that Mike was a great driver, he didn't show it. Mario won one championship. One. 45 years ago. Emerson Fittipaldi did better than him just prior.

It's his US success where Mario really made his name.

And I was at Ford when we decided to get back into F1. Didn't go that well. And didn't last long. (I also knew people who were involved in the 80s V6 program, and, well....) GM is run exactly the same way Ford is, so unless there is immediate success, they will decide to leave very quickly. Given Cadillac's drive to race on Sunday, sell on Monday- the fact that they are still struggling suggests to me that not many people have identified them will sporty cars. So tying them with F1???

Unless Andretti raises their game a lot, Herta will continue to struggle to get the points as fast as they are being take off his rolls. Herta's scoring problem is quite directly an Andretti problem. But given they can't make a car that is as consistently fast as Ganassi AND Penske, I very much can't agree that they know more than other teams out there. It would be great if they could, but, well, the on track performance just isn't there. Maybe in the next seasons? Dunno. But it's doubtful to me.

I fully understand that people want this to work, and want to put those names into the highest level of racing in the world. I like Mario, too. I just don't see how it would be competitive. Haas did well mostly because their strategy of letting someone else build their chassis, get all of the powertrain and suspension from someone else, and then focusing on the aero only. Maybe Andretti does that, but they need to present that concept.

I can’t argue against your experience at Ford, that doesn’t bold well for either them or GM.

but I would argue Mario was a premier driver. Comparing him to Fittipaldi is not fair because Mario wasn’t exactly full time F1.

as for Michael, the other drivers say he was great. I think he more than held his own against Mansell as well.

The INDYCAR team has faltered I think because they have 1 or 2 too many cars. They need to pare down to 3 at most. The. They’ll be successful again.

Herta made a mistake signing an extension unless he really believes Andretti Global will happen and he’ll be in F1 by 2025. Personally if F1 is Colton’s dream I think he should be a Red Bull development driver and spend the entire next 2 years in Europe racing everything he can.

I agree Prost is a much bigger name in F1 circles than Andretti but wasn’t shocked his team didn’t succeed. Look how quickly fortunes turned against Williams and Mclaren. One wrong move (engineering or otherwise) and , you’re 5th place or worse.

[Kepler]

Is that a serious question? US laws make it worse, as tax laws allow for almost unlimited stock options, and that results in pushes to raise the stock price as fast as possible. Which leads to very short sighted decisions.

Yes, it's a serious question. Are US stock option laws significantly different from every other capitalist country?

[Kepler]

I read up a bit on short-termism and the myopia thesis, and the major opponents of the hypothesis are: U Chicago and the Freshwater School, Larry Summers, the Fed, and AEI. With enemies like that, sign me up!

[MichVandal]

I can’t argue against your experience at Ford, that doesn’t bold well for either them or GM.

but I would argue Mario was a premier driver. Comparing him to Fittipaldi is not fair because Mario wasn’t exactly full time F1.

as for Michael, the other drivers say he was great. I think he more than held his own against Mansell as well.

I'm not saying that Mario wasn't a great driver- one of the best ever. I'm saying what he did outside the US, specifically F1, is relatively minor compared to other champions. Great that he did it once, but that was it.

And it really doesn't matter how great of a driver the other drivers thought of Mike, the fans saw him as a failure- which really subdues the Andretti name.

Do you know the name of the driver that tested better than Senna did? It happened, and he didn't get a ride in F1. So the thought that person was a great driver never really got to the fans.

Remember, we are talking of the perception of the Andretti name. How it appeared and happened matters.

[MichVandal]

I read up a bit on short-termism and the myopia thesis, and the major opponents of the hypothesis are: U Chicago and the Freshwater School, Larry Summers, the Fed, and AEI. With enemies like that, sign me up!

Has the working goal of "Shareholder value" ever been used outside of the US? I know it was the direct goal of our CEO twice while I was working at Ford- neither time were good long term decisions made, and Jack the Knife almost killed Ford taking that path. So I have a very personal distaste for the US goal of share prices.

[Kepler]

Has the working goal of "Shareholder value" ever been used outside of the US?

Call me stupid but isn't that every BOD's lodestone in Capitalism? The shareholders elect them to oversee strategies that will increase their ROI. They hire mercs to occupy C level offices to put those strategies into effect. Hence, shareprice.

You can certainly do it and also have an eye on sustainability and future growth. But that's the whole game of capitalism, really, init? Driving shareprice for ROI is what distinguishes it from other free market systems.

But I'm just a simple country anarcho-syndicalist.

[solovsfett]

I'm not saying that Mario wasn't a great driver- one of the best ever. I'm saying what he did outside the US, specifically F1, is relatively minor compared to other champions. Great that he did it once, but that was it.

And it really doesn't matter how great of a driver the other drivers thought of Mike, the fans saw him as a failure- which really subdues the Andretti name.

Do you know the name of the driver that tested better than Senna did? It happened, and he didn't get a ride in F1. So the thought that person was a great driver never really got to the fans.

Remember, we are talking of the perception of the Andretti name. How it appeared and happened matters.

Tested better than Senna at Toleman? Or?

my memory isn’t the greatest but Stefan Belloc comes to mind as a possible. I don’t think it was Hakkinen at McLaren but maybe?

[MichVandal]

Tommy Byrne.

Apparently there was a documentary about him in 2016, but I had heard rumors before it about him.

[Russell Jaslow]

Tommy Byrne.

Apparently there was a documentary about him in 2016, but I had heard rumors before it about him.

Tommy Byrne is one of the classic “what if” stories.

[solovsfett]

https://t.co/3sdk0VwVRQ


IF true, this is exactly what I thought would happen. Ford doesn’t want to miss the fun.

[MichVandal]

https://t.co/3sdk0VwVRQ


IF true, this is exactly what I thought would happen. Ford doesn’t want to miss the fun.

Can't say I believe much, especially about Ford. But the irony if the Ford logo ends up on a Red Bull. Where's Jackie Stewart when you need him?

[Jimjamesak]

So it’s the same old “we Americans money but not Americans” song and dance from F1?