Open Wheel Racing 2021, anyone there to watch?

[unofan]

One of the things you're seeing is there is very limited general benefit getting spread around. There are about 3-4 casinos in Las Vegas that F1 teams, fans or visitors would consider staying at. They aren't staying at Planet Hollywood or Treasure Island or the Flamingo or any places like that.

The exceedingly upscale locations in Vegas are doing fine by the event, but very little of Vegas fits in that category.

It's been a long time since I stayed on the strip; normally I'm either at my parents' house in the western burbs or an airbnb near their house in the western burbs. Last time on the strip was close to 10 years ago, wife and I stayed at Treasure Island for a night before heading to St George and Zion and yeah, it was ok but not F1 euro-fan acceptable (and, ironically, we wound up at the Trump hotel for a night on the way back after Priceline offered a 5-star hotel in the strip for under $100. We'd guessed it was going to be the Trump based the description but couldn't pass up the deal. Nice hotel but gaudy as ****.) But I can't imagine an extra decade has treated since of those hotels well; TI was already looking dated and well-worn 10 years ago.

Probably will avoid the Strip next week when I'm out there for Thanksgiving since whole family will be there. But I'm planning to stay an extra night when i visit my parents again in January to just get one night alone with no parents/kid/etc. Sto just do some gambling, shopping, etc and otherwise get some alone time. Probably will stay on the strip for that one night, so it'll be interesting to see how it's changed.

[RaceBoarder]

It's been a long time since I stayed on the strip; normally I'm either at my parents' house in the western burbs or an airbnb near their house in the western burbs. Last time on the strip was close to 10 years ago, wife and I stayed at Treasure Island for a night before heading to St George and Zion and yeah, it was ok but not F1 euro-fan acceptable (and, ironically, we wound up at the Trump hotel for a night on the way back after Priceline offered a 5-star hotel in the strip for under $100. We'd guessed it was going to be the Trump based the description but couldn't pass up the deal. Nice hotel but gaudy as ****.) But I can't imagine an extra decade has treated since of those hotels well; TI was already looking dated and well-worn 10 years ago.

Probably will avoid the Strip next week when I'm out there for Thanksgiving since whole family will be there. But I'm planning to stay an extra night when i visit my parents again in January to just get one night alone with no parents/kid/etc. Sto just do some gambling, shopping, etc and otherwise get some alone time. Probably will stay on the strip for that one night, so it'll be interesting to see how it's changed.

There definitely is a "middle class" hotel level on the strip. Places like Planet Hollywood or the Linq can be found for $100-150/night ("out the door" price w/ resort fees, etc). Solid location and solid rooms. A step above known cheap stays like Excalibur or Luxor.

[MichVandal]

I'm surprised by that.

I recognize the drivers, engineers, race fans, and locals are all screwed, but the pols who were bribed, businesses, VIPs, FIA big wigs, and Liberty are all going to make out. That's an unqualified success for the people who matter.

Given how many locals are dealers, bar tenders, servers, cleaners, etc- and there is a union, they kind of matter a lot. Let alone they are the ones who will decide elections, so if they want to find a new set of leadership who will end this, they can.

That's why the tip amounts for all of them is a really big deal. If they get a huge amount of tip income for this struggle, then they will tolerate it. If not....

[aparch]

I suppose being a brand new street circuit, all of the covers/plates weren't fully mapped out and this one just slipped through the cracks so to speak. I assume that it's still S.O.P. to weld them into place for the weekend?

All those streets were repaved and manholes adjusted (or should have been) prior to the repave. The engineering firm (or I guess Clark County / City of Vegas Public Works) should have had documentation where each and every structure was located.

On top of that, F1, *at a minimum* should have had a walk through of the track the day prior to activity with a contractor on hand for last minute issues like this to be resolved.

If this is F1's deal (as I've seen) and they don't have a middle man putting this event on, this is 100% on F1.



What's embarrassing is that the NASCAR race in Chicago was commended for not having issues like this when I could d*mn well see clear as day during the broadcast there were structures and other imperfections where the contractor took shortcuts or structures weren't adjusted correctly.

[Kepler]

Given how many locals are dealers, bar tenders, servers, cleaners, etc- and there is a union, they kind of matter a lot. Let alone they are the ones who will decide elections, so if they want to find a new set of leadership who will end this, they can.

That's why the tip amounts for all of them is a really big deal. If they get a huge amount of tip income for this struggle, then they will tolerate it. If not....

Well the Eruos don't tip.

[Kepler]

All those streets were repaved and manholes adjusted (or should have been) prior to the repave. The engineering firm (or I guess Clark County / City of Vegas Public Works) should have had documentation where each and every structure was located.

On top of that, F1, *at a minimum* should have had a walk through of the track the day prior to activity with a contractor on hand for last minute issues like this to be resolved.

If this is F1's deal (as I've seen) and they don't have a middle man putting this event on, this is 100% on F1.



What's embarrassing is that the NASCAR race in Chicago was commended for not having issues like this when I could d*mn well see clear as day dur8ng the broadcast there were structures and other imperfections where the contractor took shortcuts or structures weren't adjusted correctly.

I assumed an F1 track was surveyed with lasers and then graded flat to the Planck scale. It never occurred to me they would even allow disturbances to the plane like manholes or drain pipes -- but that all of that was taken care of off the track. I just assumed even a street race meant the entire length of the race the roads were hyper-engineered so you could drive those fragile little show ponies over them at eleventy-billion kpm (6.83508311 billion mph).

[MichVandal]

I assumed an F1 track was surveyed with lasers and then graded flat to the Planck scale. It never occurred to me they would even allow disturbances to the plane like manholes or drain pipes -- but that all of that was taken care of off the track. I just assumed even a street race meant the entire length of the race the roads were hyper-engineered so you could drive those fragile little show ponies over them at eleventy-billion kpm (6.83508311 billion mph).

Well, there's your problem.

There have been some horrific street tracks, even in recent history. Singapore was know for the Singapore Sling- which was a massive bump on the track. That's the #1 risk of having street tracks, #2 would be it being so narrow that you can't really race (see Monaco).

To me, aparch's point that this is all on F1 is the real highlight in the problem. It kind of boggles my mind that they are doing this all on their own, and not milking some local government that wants a race. Or local organizer- which is what happened at Indy. In terms of fans and access, that is easily the best circuit, ever, on the F1 calendar. The locality is totally set up for 600k people, so the 250k that showed at the F1 race was easy. Sight lines were great- as much of the higher stands could see the entire circuit. By far, the largest number of fans at a race- Indy was getting as many for just the race as Silverstone was getting for the whole weekend.

But F1 wanted more money out of it.

Anyway....

[RaceBoarder]

I assumed an F1 track was surveyed with lasers and then graded flat to the Planck scale. It never occurred to me they would even allow disturbances to the plane like manholes or drain pipes -- but that all of that was taken care of off the track. I just assumed even a street race meant the entire length of the race the roads were hyper-engineered so you could drive those fragile little show ponies over them at eleventy-billion kpm (6.83508311 billion mph).

I forget whose video this comes from, but they actually stated the paving tolerance: 3mm vertical change in the surface over 4 meters length. I assume that is strictly referring to the plane that the pavement is on, since there are obviously hills on natural terrain courses that are over that tolerance.

[Kepler]

I for one welcome our new Williams overlords.

[Drew S.]

Yes, the worry is they will break the Montreal record. This is at night. Deserts are hot in the day... and cold at night. I guess there are no desert courses on F1 oh wait.

I watched an excellent video with a guy who made a good point: those temperatures usually mean "winter testing," meaning among other things two warm up laps instead of one during quali. So now we'll have twice as many drivers going slow while other drivers try to get in their timed laps, all under cold conditions with no grip on a track that exacerbates by having few turns.

Whoopie!

Speaking of Montreal, has anyone been? It’s close enough for me that I could go there and back same day. I’m not the biggest F1 fan in the world but as a sports lover in general am interested in going to a race. If you have gone how is it as far as getting in and out of the event and where is the best value as far as seats?

I went to the Rodgers Cup in Montreal a few years ago and it was by far the most disorganized thing I have ever been to. The parking and ticketing could not have been worse if they tried.

[Russell Jaslow]

When Kym Ilman, the white-haired dude, was doing a track walk early in the week, he noted the manholes were not welded down. I thought I had mentioned that in an earlier post.

I read there’s a Vegas city law which prevents welding manhole covers down. So, they devised a complicated system (which I will not attempt to explain) to lock them down.

Technically it worked. It was not a manhole cover which came up. I would also argue it worked period. The drain cover which came up did not come up by itself. It tore up the surrounding asphalt. How they locked it down worked. The weak point was the asphalt around it, something which would not have been spotted in an inspection.

[Russell Jaslow]

One of the things you're seeing is there is very limited general benefit getting spread around. There are about 3-4 casinos in Las Vegas that F1 teams, fans or visitors would consider staying at. They aren't staying at Planet Hollywood or Treasure Island or the Flamingo or any places like that.

The exceedingly upscale locations in Vegas are doing fine by the event, but very little of Vegas fits in that category.

Not only that, the local grunt workers have complained they are not seeing any of these extra profits — no raises, even temporary, no attempt to pay them for lost time in traffic jams, higher parking costs, and as was mentioned elsewhere, Euros don’t tip.

[Russell Jaslow]

Has been for a very, very long time- manhole covers have almost killed drivers in the past. But to not allow Sainz to fix his car when he did nothing wrong (like brush up against a wall), not sure about that. That seems weak. I understand the rule, but how are drivers supposed to know that driving over a metal cover was going to destroy the car?

Who was the driver in a world sports car event at Montreal who had a massive scary crash when he sucked up a manhole cover through his car?

[Russell Jaslow]

Well, there's your problem.

There have been some horrific street tracks, even in recent history. Singapore was know for the Singapore Sling- which was a massive bump on the track.

Remember the first year at Singapore when the high voltage of some subway station the cars ran over shorted the electronics out on some cars, causing them to shut off?

[Russell Jaslow]

Speaking of Montreal, has anyone been? It’s close enough for me that I could go there and back same day. I’m not the biggest F1 fan in the world but as a sports lover in general am interested in going to a race. If you have gone how is it as far as getting in and out of the event and where is the best value as far as seats?

Back when I was in college, which was a short drive away. So that was a long, long time ago.

I keep wanting to go back, but nowadays, even Montreal has fallen victim to the newfound popularity and prices and hassles have me questioning my desire.

As for seats, I would go with the custom package which allows you to pick (within reason) a different grandstand each day.