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  • Originally posted by Spartanforlife4 View Post

    Are there specific protocols on when to start from the grid versus a rolling start after a red?

    For a sport with so many specific regulations and points of emphasis on seemingly trivial things, once it comes to race day there are a lot of decisions that appear to be completely random.
    No idea. Sure seems pretty random. And given where the car was, why was it even a red flag? Why can't a race finish under a SC? It was going to be an anticlimactic ending anyway, given the gaps.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by solovsfett View Post
      Where the hell was Leclerc?

      indyar in Texas was pretty amazing! Newgarden with the win.
      Man, I'm pretty frustrated with Indycar. I have no idea when a race will be on, and missed the whole thing, again. It's been a few seasons since I watched most of the season, and then the races became pretty random and barely talked about. IIRC, last season I only watched the 500, as it is pretty easy to predict when it's on and to search for it. This season, I've not even seen a replay of a race, let alone an Indycar on a track.

      In contrast, NBC's former sport is easy to find- the NHL on both ESPN and TNT is consistent enough to find them really easily. I've watched more hockey this season than I have in many, many years.

      What time did the race even start?

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      • Originally posted by MichVandal View Post

        I think so. If that had happened in the middle of the race, and was just an aggressive pass, sure, he would be at fault. But it was a grid (re)start, so all of the cars were really bunched together. And everyone is scrambling for position- just like the start of the race. I think that would have been ok on lap 1, and it was similar to something that did happen on lap 1.

        It's a whole lot less clear than other situations.
        Fair. I'm actually surprised there isn't a 9-car pileup on the first turn in every Grand Prix.
        Cornell University
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        • Originally posted by MichVandal View Post

          Man, I'm pretty frustrated with Indycar. I have no idea when a race will be on, and missed the whole thing, again. It's been a few seasons since I watched most of the season, and then the races became pretty random and barely talked about. IIRC, last season I only watched the 500, as it is pretty easy to predict when it's on and to search for it. This season, I've not even seen a replay of a race, let alone an Indycar on a track.

          In contrast, NBC's former sport is easy to find- the NHL on both ESPN and TNT is consistent enough to find them really easily. I've watched more hockey this season than I have in many, many years.

          What time did the race even start?
          One of the big reasons MLS went with Apple: consistent start times for all games. Unsurprising that NBC is jerking IndyCar around and not advertising.
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          • Originally posted by MichVandal View Post

            Man, I'm pretty frustrated with Indycar. I have no idea when a race will be on, and missed the whole thing, again. It's been a few seasons since I watched most of the season, and then the races became pretty random and barely talked about. IIRC, last season I only watched the 500, as it is pretty easy to predict when it's on and to search for it. This season, I've not even seen a replay of a race, let alone an Indycar on a track.

            In contrast, NBC's former sport is easy to find- the NHL on both ESPN and TNT is consistent enough to find them really easily. I've watched more hockey this season than I have in many, many years.

            What time did the race even start?
            Started at 11est. I agree though, INDYCAR marketing is awful and NBC controls their start times and puts what I consider a very important race for them (Toronto) on their stupid peacock app only. It’s ludicrous.
            Everything in its right place, Wisconsin Hockey National Champs!


            "but you're not as confused as him are you. it's not your job to be as confused as Nigel". Tap pt 1.

            "I think it's ****ing stock. What--? Which part of that is unclear to you? I think it sounds stock to my ears. I mean, do you want me to write it down?" Tap Pt. 2

            Who???! So What!!!! Big Deal!!!!

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            • Originally posted by Spartanforlife4 View Post

              Are there specific protocols on when to start from the grid versus a rolling start after a red?

              For a sport with so many specific regulations and points of emphasis on seemingly trivial things, once it comes to race day there are a lot of decisions that appear to be completely random.
              Yes.

              The rule is basically a standing start is used after a red flag unless the race director deems the conditions to be unsafe.

              Vague enough to essentially leave it up to the race director. Most people assume rain is the unsafe condition the rules are referring to. But it can be anything. Cold track where tires can't warm up properly. Or, perhaps, when there are two laps left and they know everyone is going to lose their ****ing minds.

              The real issue to me is none of these situations required a red flag. And to compound the effect of a red flag is the absurdity of allowing work to be done during a red flag. No other racing series in the world, amateur or pro, allows this. It totally messes up a race for everyone, including the fans, especially if they are going to be red flagging races on a whim.
              Russell Jaslow
              [Former] SUNYAC Correspondent
              U.S. College Hockey Online

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              • Originally posted by Russell Jaslow View Post


                The real issue to me is none of these situations required a red flag. And to compound the effect of a red flag is the absurdity of allowing work to be done during a red flag. No other racing series in the world, amateur or pro, allows this. It totally messes up a race for everyone, including the fans, especially if they are going to be red flagging races on a whim.
                Other than the two Alpines parked on the edge of the track, I agree. But I know you were not really talking about that mess.

                Seems that they could have even called the race then, given how much time it took just to run two laps behind a safety car.

                Comment


                • Massa is deciding whether to take legal action.
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                  • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                    Massa is deciding whether to take legal action.
                    Well… 1. This won’t work.
                    2. Ecclestone is an idiot for knowing lot allowing that bs from Piquet.
                    3…I admit, Massa has a point but I don’t se how to remedy this, especially after all of the time that’s elapsed.
                    4. I guess there’s some precedent. Mario won his 2nd Indy 500 until the stewards stole it from him

                    so hell…I’m conflicted on this story.
                    Everything in its right place, Wisconsin Hockey National Champs!


                    "but you're not as confused as him are you. it's not your job to be as confused as Nigel". Tap pt 1.

                    "I think it's ****ing stock. What--? Which part of that is unclear to you? I think it sounds stock to my ears. I mean, do you want me to write it down?" Tap Pt. 2

                    Who???! So What!!!! Big Deal!!!!

                    Comment


                    • Solution is obvious to me. You take Lewis' title and give it to Massa and then you take Max' first title and give it to Lewis.

                      Everybody wins.
                      Cornell University
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                      • Originally posted by solovsfett View Post

                        Well… 1. This won’t work.
                        2. Ecclestone is an idiot for knowing lot allowing that bs from Piquet.
                        3…I admit, Massa has a point but I don’t se how to remedy this, especially after all of the time that’s elapsed.
                        4. I guess there’s some precedent. Mario won his 2nd Indy 500 until the stewards stole it from him

                        so hell…I’m conflicted on this story.
                        One issue I see is that you have to prove that Alonso was part of it. If he wasn't, how do you take a win away from an individual? He didn't cheat.

                        It would be incredibly interesting that Alonso was directly involved with two cheating scandals that quickly.

                        Besides, the team has already served the time and paid the fine.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by MichVandal View Post
                          One issue I see is that you have to prove that Alonso was part of it. If he wasn't, how do you take a win away from an individual? He didn't cheat.
                          Because if you benefit from somebody else's crime you can't lose that benefit?

                          Somebody should tell that to people who buy stolen goods.

                          The point of annulling a result is you aren't "taking it away," because it never happened. "How can you take away my sac fly RBI just because the runner left early?!" No.


                          Last edited by Kepler; 04-05-2023, 12:42 PM.
                          Cornell University
                          National Champion 1967, 1970
                          ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                          Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                          • Originally posted by Kepler View Post

                            Because if you benefit from somebody else's crime you can't lose that benefit?

                            Somebody should tell that to people who buy stolen goods.

                            The point of annulling a result is you aren't "taking it away," because it never happened. "How can you take away my sac fly RBI just because the runner left early?!" No.

                            Winning a race without doing anything wrong isn't the same as buying stolen goods. You'd have to prove that Alonso knew about it, as I see it. Alonso is more like the cost of new cars is lower because his teammate is selling stolen cars.

                            And annulling the result hurts a lot of teams who did nothing wrong. Let alone all of the money that would go around that.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by MichVandal View Post

                              Winning a race without doing anything wrong isn't the same as buying stolen goods. You'd have to prove that Alonso knew about it, as I see it. Alonso is more like the cost of new cars is lower because his teammate is selling stolen cars.

                              And annulling the result hurts a lot of teams who did nothing wrong. Let alone all of the money that would go around that.
                              I don't think you have to prove Alonso knew about it. You just have to prove it happened and that the rule was to wipe the race.

                              Now, the only thing I've seen so far that says the latter is Ecclestone, and Ecclestone seems to have the same moral character as Dump, so I don't know if that's correct. And if this isn't a legal matter and is just the rules, and if FIA has a rule that says "once declared a race can't be rescinded," then I don't know if there's anything anybody can do about it but asterisk it like Bonds.
                              Cornell University
                              National Champion 1967, 1970
                              ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                              Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                              • Originally posted by MichVandal View Post
                                And annulling the result hurts a lot of teams who did nothing wrong. Let alone all of the money that would go around that.
                                But the thing is, if there's a matter of truth here, then it doesn't matter if those teams get hurt... it's still true.

                                I have no doubt money will finally decide this. I was more arguing about what should happen. What will happen is bound to be awful.
                                Cornell University
                                National Champion 1967, 1970
                                ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                                Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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