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  • Originally posted by MichVandal View Post

    And they tried that already. Didn't work. When Vettel didn't let Weber by, that was no team orders era- even though Red Bull was overtly not following that rule.

    Red Bull has been the worst team when it comes to team orders- it has been either Vettel or Max and nobody else. It's not all that shocking they have been a revolving door for the other driver. While Merc and Ferrari have done team orders, they are infrequent enough that the other driver stays for a long time. (and I'm very much not including pre Schumi era).
    Agreed RBR is the worst on this topic. With hindsight it appears to me Vettel was a vastly overrated driver. Possibly he was better than Weber but I think he was provided superior equipment.
    Everything in its right place, Wisconsin Hockey National Champs!


    "but you're not as confused as him are you. it's not your job to be as confused as Nigel". Tap pt 1.

    "I think it's ****ing stock. What--? Which part of that is unclear to you? I think it sounds stock to my ears. I mean, do you want me to write it down?" Tap Pt. 2

    Who???! So What!!!! Big Deal!!!!

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    • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
      Is it really just a matter of rich, pretty 20-somethings having the runaway ego and self-defeating irresponsibility of celebrities or Republicans?
      Every once in a while, it's not. Say like Sir Lewis Hamilton. He got found as a kart driver when his dad did the best he could with very used parts, and was signed to the McLaren young driver program at 13. Talk about coming from a modest background with more reasons than that to hold him back. And now he's the GOAT.

      I'm sure there are a bunch of other, but there are more rich 20 yo's than not, by a massive, massive margin. Dad's love to spend their billions on their kid's driving career. Some even buy a team as a toy for the kid (how else is Stroll still in F1- the guy is a terrible driver).

      Although Max gets special note, his dad Jos, was a terrible person. And he carried that into being a umbrella dad. Which has very, very much carried over to max. He almost killed a guy in a karting assault, and has been charged with assaulting his wife as well as attempted murder driving a car into a girlfriend. Kind of the opposite to the Hamilton family.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by MichVandal View Post
        Piquet was ousted because he was slow. And after he got sacked, he spilled the bean on his intentional crash to help Alonso- so I'm sure he knew his F1 time was up.
        And when Junior was going to be let go, Senior threatened Briatore that he was going to spill the beans on Singapore if they fired his son. And he did...
        Russell Jaslow
        [Former] SUNYAC Correspondent
        U.S. College Hockey Online

        Comment


        • Originally posted by MichVandal View Post

          And they tried that already. Didn't work. When Vettel didn't let Weber by, that was no team orders era- even though Red Bull was overtly not following that rule.

          Red Bull has been the worst team when it comes to team orders- it has been either Vettel or Max and nobody else. It's not all that shocking they have been a revolving door for the other driver. While Merc and Ferrari have done team orders, they are infrequent enough that the other driver stays for a long time. (and I'm very much not including pre Schumi era).
          I would argue Ferrari was worse on team orders than Red Bull, especially back in the Schumacher era. It was just more subtle.

          Speaking of Ferrari and illegal team orders -- my favorite one was when Ferrari told Massa, "Fernando is faster than you. Do. You. Understand?"

          That was the moment the FIA realized it was impossible to police the outlawing of team orders...
          Russell Jaslow
          [Former] SUNYAC Correspondent
          U.S. College Hockey Online

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
            I am very surprised guys under contract to be teammates in future seasons would do this. Not just because of professional etiquette and team solidarity, but because they depend on each other out on the track and their relationship also puts strain on all the people who support them from mechanics and strategists to public relations and principals. I can't see even the world's worst diva getting away with that without the team going absolutely nuclear on them, for all the reasons people have listed on this thread.

            Is it really just a matter of rich, pretty 20-somethings having the runaway ego and self-defeating irresponsibility of celebrities or Republicans?
            Auto racing, and particularly F1, always has had this interesting dichotomy of individual sport vs. team sport.

            What you state is true but so is the desire of these Type A hugely successful athletes wanting to be a world champion. Everyone remembers that, not which team won the title. Plus, rule number one in racing is beat your teammate. Because that is the only apples vs. apples comparison you can ever have since all the other teams are so different, and again in F1 have completely different cars. So, the only way you can truly be measured is how you did against your teammate. Thus, by default, it automatically creates discord between teammates.

            Think QB or goaltending controversies that occur. Sometimes, the athletes think team first and don't make waves. Other times, they think about themselves first and cause the team's harmony to be wrecked.

            F1 has a long history of teammate controversies. Look up Senna vs. Prost when they were teammates. Heck, they crashed on purpose in the final race in Japan to decide the championship. Look at Hamilton purposely backing up Rosberg hoping someone else would pass him to take away crucial points that would have given the title to Hamilton at Abu Dhabi despite the team telling Lewis to absolutely stop it. Multi-21 between Vettel and Webber. Alonso staying in the pits to screw Hamilton from getting new tires in time during qualifying when they were at McLaren.

            Once, when Bernie Ecclestone owned Brabham, in the last race of the season, he told the second driver to move over if necessary to let Piquet by since he was fighting for a title. The second driver said he absolutely won't do that. Bernie said, "So, we made sure it wasn't a problem. We didn't give him enough fuel to finish the race."

            Enzo Ferrari loved to pit his drivers against each other to "motivate" them. Some say that was the reason which caused Wolfgang von Trips, under intense pressure, to fatally crash at Monza handing the championship to his teammate Phil Hill in 1961. (Ironically, Hill and von Trips got along just fine.)

            Then, there are the times teammates are told to support the other driver with the promise it will be their year the next season. Many argue Ronnie Peterson was a better driver than Mario Andretti, but Peterson duly supported Andretti to the title in 1978 as asked, because he was told it would be his year to go for it the next season. Sadly, Peterson died at the end of that season.*

            Gilles Villeneuve also played the dutiful teammate, supporting Jody Scheckter who won the title in 1979. Again, Gilles sadly never had a chance to have his turn, as Ferrari took a downturn and then he was killed in 1982.

            * - The stories of the only two Americans to win the World Championship are tragically coincidental. As the season wound down, the only drivers who had a mathematical chance of beating them were their teammates. In both cases, their teammates were killed, clinching the title for the Americans. Both fatal crashes were at Monza.
            Russell Jaslow
            [Former] SUNYAC Correspondent
            U.S. College Hockey Online

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Russell Jaslow View Post

              Auto racing, and particularly F1, always has had this interesting dichotomy of individual sport vs. team sport.

              What you state is true but so is the desire of these Type A hugely successful athletes wanting to be a world champion. Everyone remembers that, not which team won the title. Plus, rule number one in racing is beat your teammate. Because that is the only apples vs. apples comparison you can ever have since all the other teams are so different, and again in F1 have completely different cars. So, the only way you can truly be measured is how you did against your teammate. Thus, by default, it automatically creates discord between teammates.

              Think QB or goaltending controversies that occur. Sometimes, the athletes think team first and don't make waves. Other times, they think about themselves first and cause the team's harmony to be wrecked.

              F1 has a long history of teammate controversies. Look up Senna vs. Prost when they were teammates. Heck, they crashed on purpose in the final race in Japan to decide the championship. Look at Hamilton purposely backing up Rosberg hoping someone else would pass him to take away crucial points that would have given the title to Hamilton at Abu Dhabi despite the team telling Lewis to absolutely stop it. Multi-21 between Vettel and Webber. Alonso staying in the pits to screw Hamilton from getting new tires in time during qualifying when they were at McLaren.

              Once, when Bernie Ecclestone owned Brabham, in the last race of the season, he told the second driver to move over if necessary to let Piquet by since he was fighting for a title. The second driver said he absolutely won't do that. Bernie said, "So, we made sure it wasn't a problem. We didn't give him enough fuel to finish the race."

              Enzo Ferrari loved to pit his drivers against each other to "motivate" them. Some say that was the reason which caused Wolfgang von Trips, under intense pressure, to fatally crash at Monza handing the championship to his teammate Phil Hill in 1961. (Ironically, Hill and von Trips got along just fine.)

              Then, there are the times teammates are told to support the other driver with the promise it will be their year the next season. Many argue Ronnie Peterson was a better driver than Mario Andretti, but Peterson duly supported Andretti to the title in 1978 as asked, because he was told it would be his year to go for it the next season. Sadly, Peterson died at the end of that season.*

              Gilles Villeneuve also played the dutiful teammate, supporting Jody Scheckter who won the title in 1979. Again, Gilles sadly never had a chance to have his turn, as Ferrari took a downturn and then he was killed in 1982.

              * - The stories of the only two Americans to win the World Championship are tragically coincidental. As the season wound down, the only drivers who had a mathematical chance of beating them were their teammates. In both cases, their teammates were killed, clinching the title for the Americans. Both fatal crashes were at Monza.
              Excellent encapsulation! I had no idea some people thought Ronnie Peterson was even better than Mario. Damn. Thanks know Mario says now and has remained consistent that Peterson was his favorite teammate of all-time.
              Everything in its right place, Wisconsin Hockey National Champs!


              "but you're not as confused as him are you. it's not your job to be as confused as Nigel". Tap pt 1.

              "I think it's ****ing stock. What--? Which part of that is unclear to you? I think it sounds stock to my ears. I mean, do you want me to write it down?" Tap Pt. 2

              Who???! So What!!!! Big Deal!!!!

              Comment


              • Ferrari denies Mattia is out. Uh oh.
                Cornell University
                National Champion 1967, 1970
                ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

                Comment


                • Originally posted by solovsfett View Post

                  Excellent encapsulation! I had no idea some people thought Ronnie Peterson was even better than Mario. Damn. Thanks know Mario says now and has remained consistent that Peterson was his favorite teammate of all-time.
                  Peterson was wicked fast.
                  Russell Jaslow
                  [Former] SUNYAC Correspondent
                  U.S. College Hockey Online

                  Comment


                  • Thus ends the 2022 open wheel racing season. Partially thanks to Max being a teammate, Perez can't get 2nd in the championship. Or you can see that as a bonus for Ferrari to getting 2nd for LeClerc.

                    First mechanical failure for Mercedes ends Hamilton's season.

                    And bye to Vettel. I was a fan for a handful of races in the beginning, but after his driving at RBR- not a big deal to see him go for me.

                    Given how the season progressed- optimism for Mercedes, unsure for Red Bull (have a penalty), massive unknown for Ferrari (can't be consistent with the second fastest car out there). One wonders how many years it will take for the shake up in the rules will bring the rear teams forward- if it ever will. Some of the midfield teams had a clear advantage over the top 3, and they didn't make any progress. And while I can understand Haas's issue (not even close to the budget limit)- the rear cars also didn't do anything special relatively.

                    Comment


                    • Got a laugh on the final lap at the absurdity of two drivers without rides next year (granted one is a retirement) battling it out 80 seconds back of the leader for a single point worth 12 million dollars while fireworks are going off in the background.
                      Go Green! Go White! Go State!

                      1966, 1986, 2007

                      Go Tigers, Go Packers, Go Red Wings, Go Pistons

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Spartanforlife4 View Post
                        Got a laugh on the final lap at the absurdity of two drivers without rides next year (granted one is a retirement) battling it out 80 seconds back of the leader for a single point worth 12 million dollars while fireworks are going off in the background.
                        Yep. That was great.

                        Latifi actually being the victim of a bad move for once made me laugh, too.
                        Cornell University
                        National Champion 1967, 1970
                        ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                        Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                        • Thus ends my 1st F1 season (half season, I picked up in Spielberg).

                          General thoughts:

                          Yay Ferrari, McLaren, Williams. I am boring, sue me.

                          Without knowing them I will miss Seb and Danny Ric. I hope Alonso wins a GP when he's older than Fangio.

                          **** Red Bull, paid drivers, and Max the thick-lipped white supremacist peregrine.
                          Cornell University
                          National Champion 1967, 1970
                          ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                          Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                          • None of the F1 drivers' girlfriends is in any way attractive except Bottas' because she seems fun.

                            I have this recurrent intuition that all the drivers are actually gay and these are beards. Like NASCAR.
                            Cornell University
                            National Champion 1967, 1970
                            ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                            Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                            • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                              None of the F1 drivers' girlfriends is in any way attractive except Bottas' because she seems fun.

                              I have this recurrent intuition that all the drivers are actually gay and these are beards. Like NASCAR.
                              Based on observations, sure. But given the degree of commitment the drivers have to give, they really have no time for relationships. It's why Rosberg retired- as he was being so drawn from his family. And when you look back on who was dating who- there are some serious hotties around when they were dating.

                              And Valteri's ex is, well, she's an Olympian... And Finnish. Pretty strong combination is most books.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by MichVandal View Post
                                And Valteri's ex is, well, she's an Olympian... And Finnish. Pretty strong combination is most books.
                                A swimmer.

                                Isn't his current girlfriend a world class cyclist? Or something to that effect?
                                Russell Jaslow
                                [Former] SUNYAC Correspondent
                                U.S. College Hockey Online

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