Open Wheel Racing 2021, anyone there to watch?

[Russell Jaslow]

Not really sure what AlphaTauri is doing other than bowing down to the boss.

But WRT the engine penalties- seems to me if they really want to crack down on engine repeats, then there needs to be a progressive penalty that holds over to following races. So if you get a 25 grid spot penalty (which has happened), that should be X to the rear with 25-X going to the next races. The rules right now is when you get to 15 grid position penalties, you start from the back- and then it does not matter how many more you get. There are 7 powertrain elements with restrictions, 6 of them have season limits of 2 or 3- so it's quite likely that the teams that did the changes all had +20 grid spot penalties.

And then the next powertrain changes should double the grid spot penalty (triple for third). The ONLY excuse for not having that is if an accident destroys an engine. Right now, the penalties are the opposite- 10 grid spots for the first time an element is changed, 5 the next.

Right, repeated engine penalties actually decline. This was discussed last year when people thought it was ridiculous. But the reason the rule is like that is because the FIA didn't want to destroy the lower budgeted teams in that they would always start so far back, never having a chance to score points, and thus never having a chance to earn money at the end of the year. This was before the budget cap, so maybe it's time to revisit that rule.

Before that rule, remember a few years ago when Alonso once had a like a 100+ grid penalty? The joke was he was going to have to start from his own driveway.

[Kepler]

Before that rule, remember a few years ago when Alonso once had a like a 100+ grid penalty? The joke was he was going to have to start from his own driveway.

Was it this?

Spa (of course) 2015:

McLaren's Fernando Alonso and Jenson Button have been hit with a record penalty of a total of 105 grid positions at the Belgian Grand Prix.

The two drivers have incurred the punishment because of a multitude of changes to their Honda engines.

Alonso has been hit with a total of 55 grid places and Button 50 under Formula 1's complicated engine penalty system.

They will start from the back of the grid with no further in-race penalties after qualifying 17th and 18th.

[MichVandal]

Right, repeated engine penalties actually decline. This was discussed last year when people thought it was ridiculous. But the reason the rule is like that is because the FIA didn't want to destroy the lower budgeted teams in that they would always start so far back, never having a chance to score points, and thus never having a chance to earn money at the end of the year. This was before the budget cap, so maybe it's time to revisit that rule.

Before that rule, remember a few years ago when Alonso once had a like a 100+ grid penalty? The joke was he was going to have to start from his own driveway.

Once the budget cap is finalized, and we've had a few years of the balance system, I do think it's a good time to rethink that rule. The only real tough part would be if it's a core engine problem that all teams share or is it an installation specific penalty.

But it's hardly a good penalty where an entire powertrain swap only nets you one back of the grid start when that's 60 or 70 points depending on where you are with parts. The idea is to cost cap the system, not game it. Right now, it's being gamed. At least limit the number of changes a team is allowed in once race, so that it ends up being just a back of the grid start.

[Kepler]

CRB to Alpine: Drop Dead

Australian Oscar Piastri will race for McLaren next season after the Formula One team won their contract dispute with Renault-owned rivals Alpine.

The sport's four-person Contract Recognition Board (CRB) ruled unanimously in their published decision on Friday that McLaren had the only valid contract for the 21-year-old rookie's services.

[Spartanforlife4]

Ferrari and Mercedes had the best practice results today. Verstappen was the only RB in FP2 and he was 8th.

Never try to put practice to qualifying or races, but maybe this is finally Hamilton’s weekend.

[MichVandal]

Curious that Perez spun preventing Russel and Hamilton a last fast lap yesterday. And then today, an AlphaTauri goes back on the track when having problems so that it forces a SC, giving Max a free pit stop when he could have come out 3rd.

kep- you wanted team orders- here they are.

[solovsfett]

Wow…https://racer.com/2022/09/04/herta-a...ed-says-marko/

I think it’s likely now that Colton Herta will be in F1 next year.

[MichVandal]

Wow…https://racer.com/2022/09/04/herta-a...ed-says-marko/

I think it’s likely now that Colton Herta will be in F1 next year.

Kinda bummed that it’s Red Bull, moreso after how this weekend played out. Tsunoda should not have been sent back out, and the VSC he caused totally changed how the end would play out. Add that to Sergio’s “spin” and it sure looks like Red Bull manipulated the race in ways it should not be.

[Russell Jaslow]

https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/3...oose-seatbelts

[solovsfett]

Kinda bummed that it’s Red Bull, moreso after how this weekend played out. Tsunoda should not have been sent back out, and the VSC he caused totally changed how the end would play out. Add that to Carlo’s “spin” and it sure looks like Red Bull manipulated the race in ways it should not be.

I agree with that. I love F1 but the team orders is garbage. That’s one area where INDYCAR would make hay vs F1 if they had their own DTS type show. When people see teammates banging wheels to get the victory.

I think Herta is going to prove to the paddock that he’s an elite talent.

[MichVandal]

https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/3...oose-seatbelts

So he was ordered to stop the car on the track at some point- the original “loose wheel” was bs, and he was ready to get out. Then they did it again to make sure a VSC comes out. I hope they look a lot harder into this.

[Kepler]

Curious that Perez spun preventing Russel and Hamilton a last fast lap yesterday. And then today, an AlphaTauri goes back on the track when having problems so that it forces a SC, giving Max a free pit stop when he could have come out 3rd.

kep- you wanted team orders- here they are.

I am prepared to believe anything evil about Mr. Spice and the Thick Lipped White Nationalist Virgin.

[Russell Jaslow]

I am prepared to believe anything evil about Mr. Spice and the Thick Lipped White Nationalist Virgin.

LOL

But everyone needs to calm down over this one. Red Bull has both championships in the bag. They didn't need to manipulate anything for just one meaningless win. The risk (like total ban from the championship, just ask Briatore) wasn't worth it.

[solovsfett]

More smoke re: Colton Herta to Alpha Tauri and possible sale to Andretti? https://thejudge13.com/2022/09/04/ho...-colton-herta/

Anyone’s guess if this happens. Herta is 22 with 7 INDYCAR wins. If he stayed here he could reach heights only Foyt, Mario, Michael and Dixon have achieved in terms of numbers of wins.

but…Perez hasn’t exactly been great this year on the main team. Could Herta eventually team with Verstappen? And you wonder how he’ll react to being told to move aside for Max.

[MichVandal]

LOL

But everyone needs to calm down over this one. Red Bull has both championships in the bag. They didn't need to manipulate anything for just one meaningless win. The risk (like total ban from the championship, just ask Briatore) wasn't worth it.

I would not say it was meaningless- in the scheme of the entire season, sure. But it was Max's home race. And that has a lot of meaning- especially for a company like Red Bull- who can sell lots of drinks and clothing to adoring fans.

If it was just Checo spinning- sure, it just happened. Or Tsunoda having a failure that causes a VSC or SC- sure. But have them the same weekend, effecting the same team. Especially the way Tsunoda stopped- the first time would have certainly caused a SC- which would have been a very different outcome than a VSC- so then he goes back in, there's a ton of confusion of what was wrong, he was sent back out, and then parked it in a clear VSC spot instead of a SC spot.

After how Red Bull manipulated the end of the season last year, and they can't do that anymore- it's just so questionable. And I'm sure the Red Bull home wants Max to break all of Lewis' record- so every dominating win is important in the long run.

Maybe I'm adding suspicion, but it sure has a feeling of something messed up.