Open Wheel Racing 2021, anyone there to watch?

[Russell Jaslow]

BTW, is there an F1 rule against Red Bull sending out a team order to Alpha Tauri for them say to help Max?

Remember when I mentioned that engine manufacturers end up with more votes than just their team as they also dictate the votes to their supplied teams?

See where I'm going with this? There are a lot of pit lane shenanigans when it comes to team orders beyond simply owning a team.

BTW, even though Red Bull owns AlphaTauri/Toro Rosso, AlphaTauri still has to build their own car. They can get no more design information from Red Bull beyond what the rules allow any more than what Haas can get from Ferrari.

[Kepler]

Remember when I mentioned that engine manufacturers end up with more votes than just their team as they also dictate the votes to their supplied teams?

See where I'm going with this? There are a lot of pit lane shenanigans when it comes to team orders beyond simply owning a team.

BTW, even though Red Bull owns AlphaTauri/Toro Rosso, AlphaTauri still has to build their own car. They can get no more design information from Red Bull beyond what the rules allow any more than what Haas can get from Ferrari.

Was that what the "Secret Deal" scandal involved?

[Russell Jaslow]

Was that what the "Secret Deal" scandal involved?

Umm, are you talking about the Force India design issue a couple of years ago when they were referred to as the Pink Mercedes?

If so, that was legal, though many teams didn't like it. Force India pushed the design sharing rules to the limit. But, it did cause the FIA to tighten the design sharing rules to limit it further.

[Kepler]

Umm, are you talking about the Force India design issue a couple of years ago when they were referred to as the Pink Mercedes?

I'm talking about one where there was a controversy about somebody getting an assist from Mercedes on a part but after the window in which those exchanges were allowed. I can't remember if it was Stroll, but I believe it was Mr. Ginger Spice who filed the compliant with F1 about it. But now that I think about it, the Secret Deal was Ferrari and something to do with fuel flow, so that was a completely different situation.

So it seems like the hierarchy of power is:

1) The engine manufacturer
2) The biggest sponsor
3) The team's actual owner
4) The principal

Let's say Mercedes wants Williams' Latifi to let Russell pass, and Latifi's daddy says no. Who wins that battle?

[Russell Jaslow]

Let's say Mercedes wants Williams' Latifi to let Russell pass, and Latifi's daddy says no. Who wins that battle?

Mercedes. Mainly because Latifi's dad wouldn't even be on the radio... :-) So, Williams would tell Latifi to let Russell by, and that would be that.

[Kepler]

Mercedes. Mainly because Latifi's dad wouldn't even be on the radio... :-) So, Williams would tell Latifi to let Russell by, and that would be that.

Does Mercedes win because they can always say "no more engines from us"?

I am beginning to understand why it was such a huge deal when Red Bull nuked its engine deal with Renault in 2019 and basically accused them of giving them shoddy seconds.

So if Porsche owns 50% of Red Bull Racing, will Honda still provide the engine? And why are they waiting until 2026, do they have to wait until contracts end?

[MichVandal]

Does Mercedes win because they can always say "no more engines from us"?

I am beginning to understand why it was such a huge deal when Red Bull nuked its engine deal with Renault in 2019 and basically accused them of giving them shoddy seconds.

So if Porsche owns 50% of Red Bull Racing, will Honda still provide the engine? And why are they waiting until 2026, do they have to wait until contracts end?

I’m thinking Honda is being paid to help. RBR didn’t anticipate that it would be that hard- they got all of Hondas upgrades at once, and then massive panic from the early season failures. So they sent a lot of money to Honda to fix it. Honda sold the whole thing to RBR, so they are not suppliers but consultants now.

When Porsche steps in? No idea. Will they overlap with Honda’s help? Probably. But knowing engineers, they will most certainly think they know better than Honda and not pay attention to the lessons.

[Russell Jaslow]

When Porsche steps in? No idea. Will they overlap with Honda’s help? Probably. But knowing engineers, they will most certainly think they know better than Honda and not pay attention to the lessons.

It is my understanding that Porsche will use some of Honda's "resources." How "resources" is defined is the key question.

[Russell Jaslow]

So if Porsche owns 50% of Red Bull Racing, will Honda still provide the engine? And why are they waiting until 2026, do they have to wait until contracts end?

Because 2026 is when the new engine regulations kick in. And it's those new engine regulations that only interests Porsche.

[MichVandal]

It is my understanding that Porsche will use some of Honda's "resources." How "resources" is defined is the key question.

Seems to me, factory and skilled labor.

[solovsfett]

Ricciardo to Ganassi in INDYCAR for at least a partial season on 2023 and possible full season in 2024. McLaren Offered him an INDYCAR seat (palou’s? once future seat?) and he told them to **** off.

McLaren is getting sued by Ganassi. This is a carrot to end the lawsuit.

Alex Palou is the big loser here along along with possibly Jimmie Johnson.

As to Andretti and F1. If I were advising him I’d ask him to lean on Ford and maybe even ask for Penske’s help on that. Make it a combo all-American effort there. Ford has a history in F1.

[Kepler]

RBR didn't anticipate that it would be that hard

It seems to me this is roughly the technical complexity of trying to launch a Mars probe. Of course it's hard!

[MichVandal]

Sorry, solovsfett, there is no way ford will get back into the f1 again. The week I retired, there were 100’s of forced retirements and just last week, 3000 cuts were announced to ICE work. The most experienced people are not there anymore.

Let alone the disaster the last time. The only people who made out from that was Jackie Stewart for the payment of his team and Red Bull for getting a fire discount on a poorly run f1 team.

[Kepler]

I was shocked to see that Ford is third all-time in F1 races entered and podiums.

Why did GM and AMC never give it a try?

[Jimjamesak]

I was shocked to see that Ford is third all-time in F1 races entered and podiums.

Why did GM and AMC never give it a try?

Ford struck lightning in a bottle with the DFV and had a huge presence in the UK and Europe.

GM had neither.