Open Wheel Racing 2021, anyone there to watch?

[Russell Jaslow]

So how does FIA decide which ten teams are in? Do they auction the spots? Does a team only rent a spot year to year and can be outbid the next? (I'd think that would make sponsorship risky.) I assume it will always be ten, they will not have expansion, so if a new team starts up that means somebody dies.

If I read the above right, we would wind up with:

Ferrari
Mercedes
Porsche-Red Bull (I would so prefer this be called Porsche; the Red Bull people seem like pr-cks)

Renault "Alpine"
McLaren (maybe with Honda)
Audi-Alpha Romeo
Lance Stroll's Paid Seat (currently Aston Martin)

Williams (Mercedes' second team) or maybe Honda
Alpha Tauri (Porsche's second team) or maybe Andretti
Haas (Ferrari's second team)

The Concorde Agreement, which contractually ties the teams and F1, states there can be 12 teams (each must enter two cars). Right now there are 10. But here's the catch. Ten teams divide up the purse money (50% of F1's profits). The purse money does not expand if 11 or 12 teams enter the series. See where I'm going with this?

In order for another team to enter, they must 1) pay $200 million fee to F1 which will get distributed among the current teams to make up for the possible loss of prize money by having an extra team and 2) receive the approval of the FIA (they want to make sure the new team has the financial wherewithal to survive, no different than any other sports league when they approve a new franchise's owners) and the other teams (see where I'm going with this again?).

The FIA has said (unofficially, because they never came out and said this) they rather have a manufacturer enter as an 11th team, not an independent. The teams will come up with any excuse to keep out a new team, because you know where I went with that...

As for your list, I don't see Andretti buying AlphaTauri (it's one word, BTW; it's the high end fashion line owned by Red Bull). Otherwise, everything else is correct.

[Russell Jaslow]

First of all, you guys MUST get Alfa Romeo right, ALFA is an acronym, and is one of the earliest great marques in Grand Prix history- they are the honest parent of Ferrari.

Good heavens, I can't believe I screwed that up. I blame Kepler. May the F1 gods forgive my sins.

VW is Audi, so once they get in, no point for VW. Odd that Porsche is also part of that, but they pretend to be independent anyway.

True. Plus, rumors have Porsche breaking away from VW and taken back by the family (who essentially still controls them). There is going to be an IPO just for Porsche stock soon.

[Russell Jaslow]

Jag had zero success thanks to parent company Ford at the time.

This was essentially Ford's team. They just happen to name it Jaguar for marketing reasons, mainly for Europe. Similar to Renault naming their team Alpine.

Yes, Ford screwed it up, but it wasn't because of the name. :-) It was because of good ole large American bureaucracy. Similar reasons why Toyota's F1 effort was a complete disaster.

[Kepler]

First of all, you guys MUST get Alfa Romeo right, ALFA is an acronym, and is one of the earliest great marques in Grand Prix history- they are the honest parent of Ferrari.

OK, OK, Alfa. Sorry. Why isn't it ALFA?

(Alfa) are part of Stellantis, which is also all of Fiat, which Maserati is also part of.

TIL #1

VW is Audi

TIL #2

Jag and BMW btdt. Jag had zero success thanks to parent company Ford at the time. BMW had had a lot of success previously, but I bet the current investment is just too much.

OK, but now Jaguar is free of the Ford stumble baby. Is there nationalist hype/pride for Jaguar, like Ferrari's, or are they just a laugh line from Austin Powers now? I mean FFS Jaguar and '60s England is a helluva mood for the rest of the world.

In the end, for real teams, the current teams gets to decide who gets to play- and given some recent history, that’s kind of fair. USF1 got a place, made a big deal, and never turned a wheel.

I assume the big US manufacturers don't see an upside for F1 because with their balls deep commitment to the herpa-derps it would foul the branding?

Has Chevy ever had a successful open wheel racing vehicle? I could bring myself to root for an F1 Corvette (although cherry red is taken).

[MichVandal]

This was essentially Ford's team. They just happen to name it Jaguar for marketing reasons, mainly for Europe. Similar to Renault naming their team Alpine.

Yes, Ford screwed it up, but it wasn't because of the name. :-) It was because of good ole large American bureaucracy. Similar reasons why Toyota's F1 effort was a complete disaster.

I’ll forgive you on the Alfa thing, kep must not remember who I was.

If it were actually Jag at the time, they would have failed even worse- my career was with F and fully understand how we screwed the pooch in F1, but at that same time, Jag was an order of magnitude worse- horrible to work with. Thankfully by the time Aston Martin went racing (with the v12 we developed for them) they were able to not have corporate daddy too close. And I hate what stroll has brought to the name.

Anyway, seeing who is interested in 2026 rules kind of tells me who does not want to pass the CO2 buck on down the line. Hybrids are a great thing, and the F1 trends can actually be brought to production.

[Kepler]

kep must not remember who I was.

Oh, wow, I had no idea. Were you part of F's racing wing or just the mothership?

[MichVandal]

OK, OK, Alfa. Sorry. Why isn't it ALFA?

Nicola Romeo bought ALFA in 1919 and added his name.

And ALFA is Anonima Lombarda Fabbrica Automobili.

OK, but now Jaguar is free of the Ford stumble baby. Is there nationalist hype/pride for Jaguar, like Ferrari's, or are they just a laugh line from Austin Powers now? I mean FFS Jaguar and '60s England is a helluva and mood for the rest of the world.

Tata doesn’t seem to interested racing. And I’m not really sure where they are in the real hybrid world. Jag will stick with electric car racing.

I assume the big US manufacturers don't see an upside for F1 because with their balls deep commitment to the herpa-derps it would foul the branding?

Has Chevy ever had a successful open wheel racing vehicle? I could bring myself to root for an F1 Corvette (although cherry red is taken).

Right now, f1 is too euro centric for full support from Ford or GM. Even Fords previous support was far more (but not fully) a Ford of England thing.

And GM is doing really well in Indycar- and have been for many decades. The funny thing about indycar is that GMs only rival is Honda, who is still waffling about F1.

[MichVandal]

Oh, wow, I had no idea. Were you part of F's racing wing or just the mothership?

Until I got the banhammer, I was a alfablue. Duh. Still have no idea why that happened.

as for F, I was in Advanced Powertrain for 25 of my 30 year career. I knew people who did some f1 controls, but that was early 90s. I did work on the v12 that ended up at Aston Martin- one of my favorite projects, and I like to think had a small part in keeping Aston Martin alive. 90% of what I did was production related, though

[Jimjamesak]

Nicola Romeo bought ALFA in 1919 and added his name.

And ALFA is Anonima Lombarda Fabbrica Automobili.


Tata doesn’t seem to interested racing. And I’m not really sure where they are in the real hybrid world. Jag will stick with electric car racing.


Right now, f1 is too euro centric for full support from Ford or GM. Even Fords previous support was far more (but not fully) a Ford of England thing.

And GM is doing really well in Indycar- and have been for many decades. The funny thing about indycar is that GMs only rival is Honda, who is still waffling about F1.

Wasn’t Ford’s involvement in F1 mostly just financing and then stamping their name on the DFV while Duckworth and company did all the work?

[Kepler]

Until I got the banhammer, I was a alfablue. Duh. Still have no idea why that happened.

as for F, I was in Advanced Powertrain for 25 of my 30 year career. I knew people who did some f1 controls, but that was early 90s. I did work on the v12 that ended up at Aston Martin- one of my favorite projects, and I like to think had a small part in keeping Aston Martin alive. 90% of what I did was production related, though

That is still incredibly impressive to me, though. (bows)

[Russell Jaslow]

Wasn’t Ford’s involvement in F1 mostly just financing and then stamping their name on the DFV while Duckworth and company did all the work?

That was long before Ford actually bought a team, named it Jaguar, and then messed it all up.

Of course, it didn't help that Bobby Rahal and Niki Lauda got into a political power play ****ing match...

[Russell Jaslow]

OK, OK, Alfa. Sorry. Why isn't it ALFA?

The same reason why it's now Fiat and not FIAT. :-)

[MichVandal]

That was long before Ford actually bought a team, named it Jaguar, and then messed it all up.

Of course, it didn't help that Bobby Rahal and Niki Lauda got into a political power play ****ing match...

Yea, totally different eras. Even the v6 in the 80s was a different team than the loser leaders for the full ford team. That was the nasar era of “lead or leave”. Picture a team with only leaders, all going in their own direction and nobody left to follow them.

[MichVandal]

That is still incredibly impressive to me, though. (bows)

Ah, you fell for my trap.

It was a good career, but I’m glad it’s over.

RJ here is impressive, he has done wheel to wheel racing, right?

[Russell Jaslow]

Ah, you fell for my trap.

It was a good career, but I’m glad it’s over.

RJ here is impressive, he has done wheel to wheel racing, right?

Two years of Skip Barber Formula Fords.

Then, I got into essentially the ground floor of the club spec racer movement with SCCA Sports Renault (paid $9,995 for that car; I kid you not, though it came without a battery, LOL) which became Spec Racer then Spec Racer Ford. (It's now Spec Racer Ford Gen3 and the car after they put paddle shifting in is going to cost ~$70,000. That's not an entry level price!!) About 25 years worth of racing. Now, I drive the pace/safety car for various groups -- some of which actually pay me (it got me to drive COTA and Indy -- both the road course and oval). I'll be doing that for the SCCA Runoffs this year at Virginia International Raceway (VIR).

Had plenty of fun and some success. Won the NYS road racing regional championship once and finished top three a lot of other times. I did qualify for the Runoffs which was at Mid-Ohio that year. Also did some endurance racing with it with another amateur organization.