POTUS 46.10: A New Hope

[MichVandal]

I give them 0 credit for the complete disorganized cluster **** they have made the withdrawl process. We should have started this in May.

In hindsight, it would have been a good idea to start getting people out early, without anyone paying attention. I wonder if they could have kept that quiet or not if it was done.

[Swansong]

arguing over who would get pilloried more for this is pointless.

[Swansong]

I give them 0 credit for the complete disorganized cluster **** they have made the withdrawl process. We should have started this in May.

From what I've read from non-screechy sources and people that spent substantial time there (and several have contacts involved in this), is that the collapse was immediate and began virtually the second they started pulling people in. If that's the case, no timeline would have changed the outcome. The Afghani government was a house of cards and any movement would topple it. Even if the Administration knew this (and maybe they did, maybe they didn't), what could they have done differently?

[SJHovey]

arguing over who would get pilloried more for this is pointless.

Exactly.

Frankly, it doesn't matter who is the POTUS when something like this occurs, you are going to be criticized by someone, somewhere for either doing something or not doing something that contributed to it. That is a fact of life for that job.

Permanent or long term placement of U.S. troops in places like Iraq, Afghanistan, etc..., is stupid. It doesn't work. It hasn't worked since the Romans were doing it.

If citizens of a country don't want to be ruled by despots or wackjobs, they have to make that decision themselves, then do something about it.

[ScoobyDoo]

From what I've read from non-screechy sources and people that spent substantial time there (and several have contacts involved in this), is that the collapse was immediate and began virtually the second they started pulling people in. If that's the case, no timeline would have changed the outcome. The Afghani government was a house of cards and any movement would topple it. Even if the Administration knew this (and maybe they did, maybe they didn't), what could they have done differently?

If that is truly true, then you're correct and I am wrong. But, I will always believe that this could have been handled better. Maybe we needed a small protection force and to get everyone in camps that are protected by our forces so we could get everyone out. There had to be a better way than all this chaos.

[J.D.]

The man should be in jail right now. Bare minimum. Instead he's golfing every day and living the good life of playboy millionaire. He is the poster child for the plutocrat class in the United States. He hasn't suffered one iota for any of the positively evil things he has done his entire life.

Ok? None of this has anything to do with what I said.

[ScoobyDoo]

Ok? None of this has anything to do with what I said.

But I do know Trump would have been destroyed if he made the exact same decision

Yes it does. He's never been destroyed. About anything. His entire life.

[Kepler]

Nothing was going to change this. There have been a few talking heads saying they were surprised, but only by the speed, not the eventuality. Everyone who knew, and was telling the truth, understood that the "Afghani government" and the "Afghani army" were fantasies we had come up with the justify the sunk cost of this atrocious quagmire and keep pouring in good money after bad.

This was Dubya's Vietnam. Obama should have pulled the plug but was afraid of the politics. Dump did because of his xenophobia and crayon-level understanding of geo-politics. Biden then used Dump's kneejerk decision as the excuse to do what the US should have done back around 2005.

The initial military mission was reasonable and a resounding success. The nation-building that followed was doomed from the start and just a hideous waste of lives and treasure.

[ScoobyDoo]

Nothing was going to change this. There have been a few talking heads saying they were surprised, but only by the speed, not the eventuality. Everyone who knew, and was telling the truth, understood that the "Afghani government" and the "Afghani army" were fantasies we had come up with the justify the sunk cost of this atrocious quagmire.

This was Dubya's Vietnam. Obama should have pulled the plug but was afraid of the politics. Dump did because of his xenophobia and crayon-level understanding of geo-politics. Biden then used Dump's kneejerk decision as the excuse to do what the US should have done back around 2005.

The initial military mission was reasonable and a resounding success. The nation-building that followed was doomed from the start and just a hideous waste of lives and treasure.

That's basically what Rachel said in the link I provided yesterday from her show. It's been known for a really long time that the nation building exercise was never going to work. I lost all respect for Leon Panetta this week cause he continually nailed himself to that cross and tried to convince people that we actually made strides in Afghanistan.

[Kepler]

That's basically what Rachel said in the link I provided yesterday from her show. It's been known for a really long time that the nation building exercise was never going to work. I lost all respect for Leon Panetta this week cause he continually nailed himself to that cross and tried to convince people that we actually made strides in Afghanistan.

Don't blame Leon, he was given a job to do and he did it. See also: Blinken and Tillerson. Pompeo you can blame, he's another idiot who believes we can and should bomb the world to make it safe for Christianity or some other idiocy.

[ScoobyDoo]

Don't blame Leon, he was given a job to do and he did it. See also: Blinken and Tillerson. Pompeo you can blame, he's another idiot who believes we can and should bomb the world to make it safe for Christianity or some other idiocy.

I don't blame Leon for that. I blame him for doubling down this week. Yeah, Pompeo is also the idiot who negotiated with the Taliban.

[Handyman]

From what I've read from non-screechy sources and people that spent substantial time there (and several have contacts involved in this), is that the collapse was immediate and began virtually the second they started pulling people in. If that's the case, no timeline would have changed the outcome. The Afghani government was a house of cards and any movement would topple it. Even if the Administration knew this (and maybe they did, maybe they didn't), what could they have done differently?

I think what no one saw coming (and should have) was that the Afghan Government would literally quit. In the run up to all of this they cut deals with the Taliban for amnesty. The second the US started to with draw the Government capitulated to save their lives and their jobs.

Scooby,

For better or for worse the idea behind pushing the date back was so the Afghanis could figure out where they were going and how they were going to get there. They can't all come here and we were not really in a position to get them to other countries without a lot of help. What's funny is all of these leaders are denouncing us for how this played out...where the **** were they? Literally everyone saw this coming (just not this fast) and I don't remember Macron or Johnson sending planes over to get people out or offering to help us, you know, like we do for them every time they **** up. (which is often) They all read from the same intelligence, they were just happy it wasn't their screw up this time so they let Biden take the fall and they could look like heroes helping out.

As for this "Who Gets It Worse" BS...Democrats are ripping Biden for how this went down...there is zero chance any GOPer would be denouncing Trump (let alone many) in real time. It doesn't matter anyways, Trump was right to make the deal (he just made it the wrong way) and Biden was right to honor it. The media is going to play up the chaos for ratings...because COVID just isn't doing it anymore.

[rufus]

I don't blame Leon for that. I blame him for doubling down this week. Yeah, Pompeo is also the idiot who negotiated with the Taliban.

If by "negotiate", you mean give them everything they wanted.

[Swansong]

If that is truly true, then you're correct and I am wrong. But, I will always believe that this could have been handled better. Maybe we needed a small protection force and to get everyone in camps that are protected by our forces so we could get everyone out. There had to be a better way than all this chaos.

https://twitter.com/rgoodlaw/status/...5Es1_&ref_url=

Then again, here's a Twitter thread that's worth reading and may somewhat disagree with what I've read. It's a fluid situation, obviously.

[Swansong]

https://twitter.com/MeidasTouch/stat...5Es1_&ref_url=


Also there's this gem.