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POTUS 46.10: A New Hope

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  • Originally posted by Handyman View Post
    The Republican plan screws half of the middle class out of stimulus checks...its a non-starter.
    Why is it a non starter? Most couples earning $149k per year will get through this ok without a stimulus check.

    I could absolutely see discussion about the cutoff point being a viable one.

    To Kep’s point, to say they don’t care about checks probably isn’t accurate, but to set they will be ok without them probably is.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Handyman View Post

      Everyone I know is middle class...they absolutely care about checks.
      Upon further review:

      Here is the distribution of US net worth. (If you don't like their data take it up with the Fed.)

      How do we want to define "middle class"?

      I suggest two conceptual distributions of poor / middle / rich:

      .33 / .33 / .33; middle class: 40k - 272k
      .25 / .50 / .25; middle class: 14k - 429k

      If you adopt the latter, then a 1k check is significant. I was thinking (vaguely) in terms of the former, but I can understand someone thinking in terms of the latter.
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      • Originally posted by ericredaxe View Post

        Why is it a non starter? Most couples earning $149k per year will get through this ok without a stimulus check.

        I could absolutely see discussion about the cutoff point being a viable one.

        To Kep’s point, to say they don’t care about checks probably isn’t accurate, but to set they will be ok without them probably is.
        75k/150k isnt the cutoff for the Republican counter plan that is Biden's Plan.

        Sen. Rob Portman (R-Ohio), one of the signers of the letter, said the GOP plan would lower those thresholds to $50,000 for individuals and $100,000 for couples. Instead of $1,400 checks, the GOP plan would propose $1,000 checks, according to Sen. Bill Cassidy (R-La.), another member of the group.
        I am sorry that is just too low. If they want to cut lower than 75k fine but if you make 50k the barrier (and there is nothing I am seeing about any sort of prorating but I am sure there is some) a lot of people in the middle class will still struggle.

        How much money does the Government waste of frivolous crap? How much wasted on PPP? Now all of a sudden the people don't need the money because...reasons?

        If you want to talk about taking the minimum wage hike out or something to lower the cost I can see that (to me that doesn't really belong in this bill anyways) but cutting the thresholds for who gets checks is not smart for either party.
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        • Going down the interwebs rabbit hole I found this:

          Could you survive in wealth?
          1. I can read a menu in French, English, and another language
          2. I have several favorite restaurants in different countries of the world
          3. During the holidays, I know how to hire a decorator to identify appropriate themes and items with which to decorate the house
          4. I know who my preferred financial advisor, legal firm, designer, domestic employment service, and hairdresser are
          5. I have at least two residences which are staffed and maintained
          6. I know how to ensure confidentiality and loyalty from my domestic staff
          7. I have at least three "screens" that keep people with whom I do not wish to have contact from me
          8. I fly my own plane or the company plane
          9. I know how to enroll a child or my child in the preferred private schools
          10. I know how to host the parties that "key" people attend
          11. I am on the boards of at least two charities
          12. I know the hidden rules of the Junior League
          13. I have an artist that I support and buy his/her work
          14. I know how to read a corporate financial statement and analyze my own financial statements

          Could you survive in the middle class?
          1. I know how to sign up an individual for Little League, piano lessons, soccer, etc
          2. I know how to set a table properly
          3. I know which stores are most likely to carry the clothing brands my family wears
          4. I know the best brand names in clothing for myself
          5. I know how to order in a nice restaurant
          6. I know how to use a credit card, checking account, and savings account
          7. I understand an annuity.the term life insurance, disability insurance, 20/80 medical insurance, house insurance, flood insurance, and replacement insurance
          8. I will or do talk to my children about going to college
          9. I know how to get one of the best interest rates on a new car loan
          10. I understand the differences among the terms principal, interest, and escrow statements on a house payment
          11. I know how to help a child with school homework and would not hesitate to call the school if there was a problem
          12. I know how to decorate the house for different holidays
          13. I know how to get a library card
          14. I know how to use different tools in the garage
          15. I repair items in my house immediately when they break or know how a repair service and call it when items break.

          Could you survive in poverty?
          1. I know which sections of town and which churches have the best rummage sales
          2. I know which rummage sales have "bag sales" and when
          3. I know which grocery stores' garbage bins can be accessed for throw away food
          4. I know how to get someone out of jail
          5. I know how to fight physically and can defend myself physically
          6. I know how to get a gun even if I have a police record
          7. I know how to keep my clothes from being stolen at the laundromat
          8. I know what problems to look for in a used car
          9. I know how to live without electricity and without a phone
          10. I know how to use a knife as scissors
          11. I can entertain a group of friends on my personality and my stories
          12. I know how to live without a checking account or debit card
          13. I know what to do when I don't have money to pay the bills
          14. I know how to move in a one-half day
          15. I know how to feed eight people for five days on $25 (185 SEK)
          16. I know how to get a food card (electronic food stamps) or other means of accessing food under state funded welfare food program
          17. I know where the free medical clinics are
          18. I am very good at bartering and trading
          19. I can live my life without a car
          Last edited by Kepler; 01-31-2021, 11:07 PM.
          Cornell University
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          • Originally posted by rufus View Post

            They can never have enough money. Saw on twitter last week, one of the guys whining on CNBC or CNN last week about the Reddit GME play was a 77 year old hedge fund owner worth an estimated $3 billion.

            How much do you need to be worth? If I was worth $3 billion, I certainly wouldn't be wrestling with business issues at the age of 77. I'd have been spending the last 40 years doing nothing except what I wanted to do, when I wanted to do it. Give me $2 million tomorrow, and I'm never working another day in my life.
            mookie couldn’t not work.
            give mookie nothing to do and he’s ready to scratch his eyeballs out
            a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by mookie1995 View Post

              mookie couldn’t not work.
              give mookie nothing to do and he’s ready to scratch his eyeballs out
              You can do my work if you want.

              I have never had a job that didn't feel like a complete waste of time.
              Cornell University
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              ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
              Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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              • Originally posted by Handyman View Post

                75k/150k isnt the cutoff for the Republican counter plan that is Biden's Plan.
                Correct, that is exactly my point. Most couples earning 149K per year will be ok without an additional 1400 check. So why can't that 150K cutoff line be a point of negotiation?

                Originally posted by Handyman View Post

                I am sorry that is just too low. If they want to cut lower than 75k fine but if you make 50k the barrier (and there is nothing I am seeing about any sort of prorating but I am sure there is some) a lot of people in the middle class will still struggle.
                Some sort of pro-rating would be a good part of a negotiation.

                Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                How much money does the Government waste of frivolous crap? How much wasted on PPP? Now all of a sudden the people don't need the money because...reasons?

                If you want to talk about taking the minimum wage hike out or something to lower the cost I can see that (to me that doesn't really belong in this bill anyways) but cutting the thresholds for who gets checks is not smart for either party.
                Of course there is all kinds of Govt waste, but that isn't getting solved in this bill, and I agree the minimum wage should be a separate discussion from a COVID relief bill.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by mookie1995 View Post

                  mookie couldn’t not work.
                  give mookie nothing to do and he’s ready to scratch his eyeballs out
                  There's lots of things one can "do" without being at work. Having money affords one the luxury to now do them.

                  And I just love how it was an economic imperative that the 1% get a $1.8 trillion tax cut, but we can't give $1400 to people making $75,000 because they " don't really need it"
                  What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Kepler View Post

                    You can do my work if you want.

                    I have never had a job that didn't feel like a complete waste of time.
                    How about the work you do here spreading the Message? Vocation/avocation?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by burd View Post

                      How about the work you do here spreading the Message? Vocation/avocation?
                      That's not work. It's a selfless act of love.
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                      ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                      Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                      • Originally posted by rufus View Post

                        There's lots of things one can "do" without being at work. Having money affords one the luxury to now do them.

                        And I just love how it was an economic imperative that the 1% get a $1.8 trillion tax cut, but we can't give $1400 to people making $75,000 because they " don't really need it"
                        This is truly the appalling part. People who don't need more money get a tax break, people who need it- let them eat cake.

                        Giving money to rich people does very little to the economy, as they can't/don't spend all of their income, but give the same money to people making less than $150k, and they will use it and it will cycle through the economy many times.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by JF_Gophers View Post
                          It would be nice if we had a better way to target the stimulus checks to the needy. The blanketing of checks is wasting money.

                          We dont need these stimulus checks. We still have our jobs. So its nice, but in no way necessary.
                          You know what would be faster and more efficient? Cut the checks to everyone. Stop this nonsense about the 50,000 families who make more than $x million. The real cost in the 50% of families who are getting cut checks. The means testing is just bad faith negotiating. They don’t care if it’s in or out. They just want to gum things up.
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                          Originally posted by Kepler
                          When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
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                          • Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post

                            You know what would be faster and more efficient? Cut the checks to everyone. Stop this nonsense about the 50,000 families who make more than $x million. The real cost in the 50% of families who are getting cut checks. The means testing is just bad faith negotiating. They don’t care if it’s in or out. They just want to gum things up.
                            This is an emergency and means testing "concern" (from people who usually call that class warfare) is just a ploy to put grit in the gears. It's the usual garbage from the usual people that government directly relieving the money problems of real people by giving them the money they need is moral hazard.

                            We aren't falling for that anymore. When the last bailed out billionaire has been pendulated with the guts of the last "fiscal conservative" we may trust that again, but not before.
                            Cornell University
                            National Champion 1967, 1970
                            ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                            Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                            • I would prefer to scale it proportionate to income. I don't need a check (nor do I qualify to receive one under either cutoff), but the woman who cuts my hair didn't get her first UI check until six months after she initially filed, and would've fallen behind on her house payments if she hadn't found a roommate. She definitely does.

                              That said, I can accept that debating this further doesn't solve the problem and that we should just ram this through and tell the knucks to pound sand.

                              Comment


                              • What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

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