SCOTUS 15: Help Us, Ruth Bader Ginsburg! You're Our Only Hope!

[SJHovey]

When the GOP doesn't feel constrained by anything, why should the Dems? This is the type of government Mitch McConnell, Trump, and GOP voters want, then lets give it to him.

Put another way, your concern would be more noteworthy if it was directed at your own party. You're pre-emptively skewering the Dems for things they may do in January while ignoring the antics of the GOP that are going on right in front of you. I'll care about your thoughts on Dem actions once you get your own house in order.

I'm not pre-emptively skewering anyone. Court packing is a stupid idea no matter who proposes it, simply because once it's done, it's open season and the other side will quickly retaliate when presented with the chance. If people can't see that, well I can't help them.

[unofan]

I'm not pre-emptively skewering anyone. Court packing is a stupid idea no matter who proposes it, simply because once it's done, it's open season and the other side will quickly retaliate when presented with the chance. If people can't see that, well I can't help them.

Yeah, it's so much better right now when the GOP pack the courts under current rules and the Dems just roll over and accept it rather than fighting fire with fire.

[Jimjamesak]

Because we should totally follow the same rules that were set in... 1869. Because nothing has changed in 150 years.

[jerphisch]

Pretty sure 2016 Hovey would tell 2020 Hovey that he's being hysterical and should quit whining.

[French Rage]

That is a myth. Flyover land didn't exist when the Electoral College was created. The Electoral College was explicitly created to entice slave holding southern states to support the Union.

As for being ignored, if 40% of the population has 40% of the voting power that isn't being ignored, it's being fairly represented. 40% of the population having 60% of the voting power is not some self-protective measure, it's saying rural voters are more important -- more authentic, more moral, more Christian, more white -- than urban voters. And that's just bullsh-t, even if it gives you personally a warm fuzzy.

You like the EC and Senate because it works for you and that's more important to you than democracy. I hate the EC and Senate because it works against me. I think I also hate them because they are against democracy, but it's fair to say that if they benefitted me I might not be as fired up about protecting democracy.

Rotten boroughs suck. We should either fix this so we are more democratic or we should allow the people in the Second America go their separate way, finally, peacefully, and have two happy countries instead of one miserable one.

I want a divorce. The kids are all grown up and outta the house now. It's time to see other countries.

His reasoning is BS too. How does the EC help rural voters in Illinois? They are outnumbered by Chicago and as such have no say in the EC. If there were a popular vote, rural voters from across the country would form a sizable block that would have definite influence. All the EC does is create the problem 50 times instead of once.

[SJHovey]

His reasoning is BS too. How does the EC help rural voters in Illinois? They are outnumbered by Chicago and as such have no say in the EC. If there were a popular vote, rural voters from across the country would form a sizable block that would have definite influence. All the EC does is create the problem 50 times instead of once.

By definition "rural" refers to lower population density, so this seems a bit incongruous to me.

Furthermore, part of the point of the EC has to do with differing interests relative to location. Rural voters in Alabama or New Mexico may not have anything close to the same concerns that say a rural voter in northern Minnesota might have. A rural Minnesota resident is likely to have much more in common with another Minnesota resident than someone from a completely different part of the country.

[SJHovey]

Pretty sure 2016 Hovey would tell 2020 Hovey that he's being hysterical and should quit whining.

2016 Hovey would tell 2020 Hovey he's not aging well.

[Kepler]

By definition "rural" refers to lower population density, so this seems a bit incongruous to me.

Furthermore, part of the point of the EC has to do with differing interests relative to location. Rural voters in Alabama or New Mexico may not have anything close to the same concerns that say a rural voter in northern Minnesota might have. A rural Minnesota resident is likely to have much more in common with another Minnesota resident than someone from a completely different part of the country.

The Federalist Papers (I forget which one so let's say 10, it's always 10) spoke directly to this and said there are many crisscrossing (orthogonal for those with more college loan debt) interests. Popular vote speaks to each of these by allowing freeform and natural coalitions that disregard state boundaries. So if for example we abolished the Senate and the EC entirely and went to pure popular vote, the same electorate would split many ways: rural/urban, educated/uneducated, religious/irreligious, conservative/liberal, authoritarian/libertarian, capitalism/socialist, white/non-white, coastal/flyover, etc... The aggregate of all these splits would be the national popular vote. Candidates would have to appeal to some majorities in order to keep faith with other minorities.

So, for example, rural voters would only be ignored if they also aligned with every other minority opinion, and at that point they should be ignored because the majority does have the right, within limits, to steer. Minority rights are still protected by Constitutional protections. So you are not oppressed but you don't get to dictate policy to a majority unless you can appeal to other majorities on other issues.

That is fairness.

Edit: Holy balls, it is Federalist 10!!!

[Handyman]

To be fair, English probably isn't the first language of many of those responders.

It does sound nicer in the original Russian ;-)

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

By definition "rural" refers to lower population density, so this seems a bit incongruous to me.

Furthermore, part of the point of the EC has to do with differing interests relative to location. Rural voters in Alabama or New Mexico may not have anything close to the same concerns that say a rural voter in northern Minnesota might have. A rural Minnesota resident is likely to have much more in common with another Minnesota resident than someone from a completely different part of the country.

Not if we’re talking about talibangelicals and the abortion and gun issues.

I imagine a rural Minnesota voter wants to pollute with impunity, wipe out all gov regulations, put women in their place and lock up the darkies in the big bad city. Not sure that’s a lot diff than West Virginia rural voters

[Jimjamesak]

Not if we’re talking about talibangelicals and the abortion and gun issues.

I imagine a rural Minnesota voter wants to pollute with impunity, wipe out all gov regulations, put women in their place and lock up the darkies in the big bad city. Not sure that’s a lot diff than West Virginia rural voters

Yeah, "rural" voters are pretty much the same everywhere. Same churches, same music, same hate.

[French Rage]

By definition "rural" refers to lower population density, so this seems a bit incongruous to me.

Because there's still, like, a lot of them over a large amount of space...so even if they have less population density it can still add up....?

Does anyone else here not get this simple ****ing concept?

[Handyman]

Early polling has people not really in favor of replacing RBG. In a number that will shock no one...37% are in favor of Trump doing it.

(morning consult poll)

[Kepler]

Yeah, "rural" voters are pretty much the same everywhere. Same churches, same music, same hate.

Same meth, same dropping out of school, same out of wedlock pregnancies, same living on disability and never working.

You know. Values voters.

[Kepler]

Early polling has people not really in favor of replacing RBG. In a number that will shock no one...37% are in favor of Trump doing it.

(morning consult poll)

Funny how that number keeps popping up.