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SCOTUS 15: Help Us, Ruth Bader Ginsburg! You're Our Only Hope!

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  • Originally posted by Handyman View Post
    Jesus what the hell year is she living in?

    A very vocal group of people that Kepler is sure doesn't exist responded to Bernie and a few others who talked about RBG and how great she was by saying she was selfish and should have left the bench years ago. Cause when I think of narcissists I think of Ruth Bader Ginsburg!
    You are being you again.

    RBG did f-ck up in not retiring when Obama could have replaced her. She was not selfish, but she had hubris and it has cost us.
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    • Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
      And then the Dems do it, again, after that. At some point we end up with 157 Supreme Court members. Is that really the plan?
      I mean... it's a plan. :-)

      We definitely have to nail the door shut after we do it, and I don't think that is possible. I guess what happens in reality is we hold the House for as long as the GOP are Nazis, so they can't add back, and once the GOP comes to its senses and deNazifies itself it's really not a problem if they do name judges again.

      When sanity returns someday we (all of us as citizens) do have to Amend eventually to fix the problem. But the Founders did not design a system of government that anticipated a fascist movement rising from one-third of the population to destroy democracy. Historically, the only way democracy has been preserved in the face of those movements has been waiting for the fascists to start a genocidal war and then kicking their cowardly posteriors.




      Last edited by Kepler; 09-21-2020, 12:23 PM.
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      • It’s not sustainable for a minority of the population to continue to name judges esp when the court makes decisions that affect everyone.

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        • Originally posted by Kepler View Post

          You are being you again.

          RBG did f-ck up in not retiring when Obama could have replaced her. She was not selfish, but she had hubris and it has cost us.
          Or...and try and stay with me here...she didnt want to retire and was still able enough to do the job. I know crazy to think about...

          RBG doesnt deserve to be derided. This is ridiculous. And by the way it is friggin dangerous considering what is on the line. The Bros need to **** until after the election.

          edit: From now til November it needs to be "Eyes on the Prize". You dont win hearts and minds (especially of women) by disrespecting RBG. That is my problem with this. We need votes...we need people ticked at what is happening not causing infighting.
          Last edited by Handyman; 09-21-2020, 12:40 PM.
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          • Originally posted by Handyman View Post
            From now til November it needs to be "Eyes on the Prize".
            (1) Agreed.

            (2) In lieu of my response to rest of your statements, see (1).
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            • Originally posted by Handyman View Post

              She probably did but that isnt what they are saying. (plus she had no way to know things would go this way...I doubt any of us would have bet we would be here at that point) They literally insult and spit on her for not retiring. Apparently doing her job and fighting the good fight makes her a selfish, egotistical narcissist. And this is the stuff they said in response to Bernie's message of remembrance for her life. They didn't even let the body get cold...
              To be fair, English probably isn't the first language of many of those responders.

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              • Originally posted by Kepler View Post

                I mean... it's a plan. :-)

                We definitely have to nail the door shut after we do it, and I don't think that is possible. I guess what happens in reality is we hold the House for as long as the GOP are Nazis, so they can't add back, and once the GOP comes to its senses and deNazifies itself it's really not a problem if they do name judges again.

                When sanity returns someday we (all of us as citizens) do have to Amend eventually to fix the problem. But the Founders did not design a system of government that anticipated a fascist movement rising from one-third of the population to destroy democracy. Historically, the only way democracy has been preserved in the face of those movements has been waiting for the fascists to start a genocidal war and then kicking their cowardly posteriors.



                I grew up during the 60's and 70's. The Supreme Court was quite liberal at that time. I think there used to be jokes about Rehnquist as the "lone dissenter" or something like that.

                Throughout its history the court has swung from conservative to liberal and back again. It will continue to do so, although I've always maintained never to the extreme desired by certain members of the public.

                I also believe that, over time, the shift has generally been in a more liberal direction than conservative.

                But, we live in a "right now" world so I expect there will be demands to take some futile and completely stupid gesture.
                That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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                • Originally posted by SJHovey View Post

                  Let me ask you this about court packing. Yeah, it mollifies, temporarily, a current frustration. But as an actual practice how effective will it really be, and how good of an idea is it?

                  Say the Dems add four court seats and get Biden to appoint four liberals.

                  Don't the Republicans just do the exact same thing the next time they hold the White House and Senate?

                  And then the Dems do it, again, after that. At some point we end up with 157 Supreme Court members. Is that really the plan?
                  I.... have the same concern. There has always been a pendulum swing between the two parties, but it seems to have been pulled to the right more often in the last decade (despite a Dem President).

                  I too fear what happens after the pendulum swings left. How far right is it going to be dragged after that?


                  What is also frustrating is items that once were halmark GOP legislation (EPA crackdown, public land protection) have become flaming liberal left ideas merely a generation later. But those are concerns for other threads to discuss.
                  “Demolish the bridges behind you… then there is no choice but to build again.”

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                  • Originally posted by SJHovey View Post

                    I grew up during the 60's and 70's. The Supreme Court was quite liberal at that time. I think there used to be jokes about Rehnquist as the "lone dissenter" or something like that.

                    Throughout its history the court has swung from conservative to liberal and back again. It will continue to do so, although I've always maintained never to the extreme desired by certain members of the public.

                    I also believe that, over time, the shift has generally been in a more liberal direction than conservative.

                    But, we live in a "right now" world so I expect there will be demands to take some futile and completely stupid gesture.
                    And that foot... is me.

                    The problem is the EC and Senate dictate that not just the right but the far, far right has an outsized influence. We no longer have one man vote, we have one square mile one vote, and it is destroying democracy.

                    Packing the Court is jerry-rigging and inelegant and temporary; we need a systemic fix. But we can't get a systemic fix because of the very problem we need to fix.

                    The real solution is obvious and one nobody wants to talk about: we are two countries and always have been. We are an urban European democracy welded to a rural Asian Mystery Cult Caliphate and the two cultures do not reconcile.

                    We had our chance. Lincoln f-cked up. Unless we undo that we are doomed to be dragged down by the Somalis among us.
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                    • Was the Democratic Senate of the 60s and 70s straight-up refusing to hear and debate conservative judges?

                      Cornell '04, Stanford '06


                      KDR

                      Rover Frenchy, Classic! Great post.
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                      • Originally posted by Kepler View Post

                        And that foot... is me.

                        The problem is the EC and Senate dictate that not just the right but the far, far right has an outsized influence. We no longer have one man vote, we have one square mile one vote, and it is destroying democracy.

                        Packing the Court is jerry-rigging and inelegant and temporary; we need a systemic fix. But we can't get a systemic fix because of the very problem we need to fix.

                        The real solution is obvious and one nobody wants to talk about: we are two countries and always have been. We are an urban European democracy welded to a rural Asian Mystery Cult Caliphate and the two cultures do not reconcile.

                        We had our chance. Lincoln f-cked up. Unless we undo that we are doomed to be dragged down by the Somalis among us.
                        I understand the frustration. But in situations like this, I always suggest to people that, before acting, put everyone in the exact opposite position.

                        I tend to think we have a pretty good system in place. It's not perfect, and it certainly hasn't treated everyone the same, but the concept, I believe is excellent and probably shouldn't be blown up just because we're not happy with how things are right now.

                        I don't want to live in a country with just pure majority rule on everything. Even if I'm in the majority. It's unlikely anyone stays in the majority forever.

                        We're a union of individual states. The electoral college was intended that those of us in "flyover land," as some here like to describe us, are not ignored.

                        This country is not ruled by the minority. That's simply the frustrated claim of the majority unable to completely unleash its tyranny.
                        That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by SJHovey View Post

                          Let me ask you this about court packing. Yeah, it mollifies, temporarily, a current frustration. But as an actual practice how effective will it really be, and how good of an idea is it?

                          Say the Dems add four court seats and get Biden to appoint four liberals.

                          Don't the Republicans just do the exact same thing the next time they hold the White House and Senate?

                          And then the Dems do it, again, after that. At some point we end up with 157 Supreme Court members. Is that really the plan?
                          When the GOP doesn't feel constrained by anything, why should the Dems? This is the type of government Mitch McConnell, Trump, and GOP voters want, then lets give it to him.

                          Put another way, your concern would be more noteworthy if it was directed at your own party. You're pre-emptively skewering the Dems for things they may do in January while ignoring the antics of the GOP that are going on right in front of you. I'll care about your thoughts on Dem actions once you get your own house in order.
                          Last edited by unofan; 09-21-2020, 01:37 PM.

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                          • Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                            The electoral college was intended that those of us in "flyover land," as some here like to describe us, are not ignored.
                            That is a myth. Flyover land didn't exist when the Electoral College was created. The Electoral College was explicitly created to entice slave holding southern states to support the Union.

                            As for being ignored, if 40% of the population has 40% of the voting power that isn't being ignored, it's being fairly represented. 40% of the population having 60% of the voting power is not some self-protective measure, it's saying rural voters are more important -- more authentic, more moral, more Christian, more white -- than urban voters. And that's just bullsh-t, even if it gives you personally a warm fuzzy.

                            You like the EC and Senate because it works for you and that's more important to you than democracy. I hate the EC and Senate because it works against me. I think I also hate them because they are against democracy, but it's fair to say that if they benefitted me I might not be as fired up about protecting democracy.

                            Rotten boroughs suck. We should either fix this so we are more democratic or we should allow the people in the Second America go their separate way, finally, peacefully, and have two happy countries instead of one miserable one.

                            I want a divorce. The kids are all grown up and outta the house now. It's time to see other countries.
                            Last edited by Kepler; 09-21-2020, 01:36 PM.
                            Cornell University
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                            • Originally posted by Kepler View Post

                              That is a myth. Flyover land didn't exist when the Electoral College was created. The Electoral College was explicitly created to entice slave holding southern states to support the Union.

                              As for being ignored, if 40% of the population has 40% of the voting power that isn't being ignored, it's being fairly represented. 40% of the population having 60% of the voting power is not some self-protective measure, it's saying rural voters are more important -- more authentic, more moral, more Christian, more white -- than urban voters. And that's just bullsh-t, even if it gives you personally a warm fuzzy.

                              You like the EC and Senate because it works for you and that's more important to you than democracy. I hate the EC and Senate because it works against me. I think I also hate them because they are against democracy, but it's fair to say that if they benefitted me I might not be as fired up about protecting democracy.

                              Rotten boroughs suck. We should either fix this so we are more democratic or we should allow the people in the Second America go their separate way, finally, peacefully, and have two happy countries instead of one miserable one.

                              I want a divorce. The kids are all grown up and outta the house now. It's time to see other countries.
                              The EC and Senate, under the current system, are not guaranteed to always work for me. They could easily work against me. In fact, I could make that happen tomorrow, simply by moving. The wind is blowing in my favor today. That won't always be the case, but it doesn't change my mind.
                              That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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                              • Practical things the good guys can do procedurally in the Senate.
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