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US Foreign Policy 3.0: We're The Mets of International Diplomacy

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  • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
    It's not an equivalency. It's a reminder of what happens when we use people as game pieces in geopolitical strategy. Do not do that. It's bad behavior.
    It's also bad behavior to shoot people in the head. But if someone busts into your house one night and wants to have their way with your wife and your daughter I'm guessing if you had a gun in your hand you'd shoot them in the head.

    We live in a world where bullies want to take advantage of weaker people. Sometimes people not directly involved end up getting hurt. Too many humans have yet to figure out a way around that. Plus, as others have posted most of these fleeing Russians are simply looking for an easy way out after ignoring Russia's war crimes for the last 7 months. There absolutely need to be consequences for people like that.

    Comment


    • We aren't using them, they are autonomous beings making decisions on their own. Stop infantalizing them because you think you are on the same side...you aren't. They are perfectly fine with Putin invading Ukraine unprovoked, murdering people for funsies and putting the entire world back on the Doomsday Clock as long as their life isn't inconvenienced. If they were more than that they could have left at any point in the prior 7 months. No they waited until they were put in harms way...they fucked around and they are finding out. They are the equivalent of the "Good Little Germans" or the Italians who dared not fight Mussolini as long as the trains ran on time.

      If you want to protect people, protect the ones that have been protesting in Moscow and St. Petersburg off and on since the war started. Protect the ones being arrested and beaten. Protect the ones who are accidentally falling out windows. Lets not repeat the mistakes we made post WW2 letting in the former Nazis because they had the wherewithal and the means to leave. (or had technology we needed **cough**Wernher Von Braun**cough** )
      "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
      -aparch

      "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
      -INCH

      Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
      -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Handyman View Post
        If you want to protect people, protect the ones that have been protesting in Moscow and St. Petersburg off and on since the war started. Protect the ones being arrested and beaten.
        Speaking of which, Russia is now conscripting those they arrested for protesting the war.

        So, just how large are the Ukrainian POW camps? Because you know this new conscripted Army is going to set a record time for immediate surrender.
        Russell Jaslow
        [Former] SUNYAC Correspondent
        U.S. College Hockey Online

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Russell Jaslow View Post

          Speaking of which, Russia is now conscripting those they arrested for protesting the war.

          So, just how large are the Ukrainian POW camps? Because you know this new conscripted Army is going to set a record time for immediate surrender.
          Agreed. And the best part is Russia thinks that threatening them with 10 years in prison for desertion is going to stop it...like they care!
          "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
          -aparch

          "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
          -INCH

          Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
          -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

          Comment


          • Saying we'll accept refugees isn't infantalizing them; who are you, Milton Friedman talking about the Poors?

            It's a false choice to say protect the people protesting OR the people trying to get out. Protect both.

            You guys made a dumb kneejerk "hurr let's get tough hurr" post for likes and you're wrong and got called on it, so suck it up, change your mind, and move past it. FFS, we all say dumb things sometimes, don't dig your heels in and double down on... fucking over refugees?!?
            Cornell University
            National Champion 1967, 1970
            ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
            Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

            Comment


            • But They're not refugees. They're just people who are afraid of having to fight in the war that they've been turning a blind eye to for months.

              Like Republicans, they don't care about anything until it affects them personally.
              What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by rufus View Post
                But They're not refugees. They're just people who are afraid of having to fight in the war that they've been turning a blind eye to for months.

                Like Republicans, they don't care about anything until it affects them personally.
                So you think they should shoot the guy on the trolley tracks, when that guy is them? I can't get on board with saying the standard to be eligible to receive empathy is a proven willingness to immolate yourself in the name of your cause. If that's where we are, then there a bunch of jihadists who we should be welcoming with open arms.
                If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

                Comment


                • Refugees...that's hilariously wrong. They are no more refugees than the Germans who fled to Argentina.
                  "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                  -aparch

                  "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                  -INCH

                  Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                  -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
                    So you think they should shoot the guy on the trolley tracks, when that guy is them? I can't get on board with saying the standard to be eligible to receive empathy is a proven willingness to immolate yourself in the name of your cause. If that's where we are, then there a bunch of jihadists who we should be welcoming with open arms.
                    You prioritize based on need and circumstance. Would they be leaving if they weren't being drafted? Would they even care? Why all of a sudden is it imperative they leave Russia?

                    They have had plenty of time to go...it wasn't like this wasn't predicted once it became clear Russia was having issues with the war...they procrastinated because they didnt care. They arent freedom fighters or refugees...they are just people who dont want to get shot fighting a war they tacitly supported a week ago.

                    What purpose would it serve any European Border Countries to open the borders and let them in? Why should they burn resources on people who openly hated them until they needed them?
                    "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                    -aparch

                    "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                    -INCH

                    Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                    -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                    Comment


                    • I have not walked a mile in their shoes, so I won’t pretend that I can understand the individual motivations or timing of 10s of thousands of individuals’ decisions. I grant that it is very likely that there are some who are worried about just their own draft status - even then, I have a hard time ever thinking of someone’s self-preservation instinct as selfish.

                      Would you grant that there are probably some people now looking to emigrate who have been actively fighting against the war at great personal risk? Would you really deny them a chance to escape just because some others may not have pure motives? That’s like saying we should shut down SNAP because some people probably sell their food to buy drugs.

                      Finally, there is always a straw that breaks the camel’s back. What if, after the midterms, there is a red wave and the GQP gerrymanders the hell out of all the purple states and you decide it’s finally time to go. However, Canada tells you to fuck off because Trump was elected in 2016 so you’ve had plenty of time to get out before then and they assume you’ve been sitting around on your *** not fighting against the GQP?
                      If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

                      Comment


                      • I understand Handyman's point - the line for many of these people is when it finally affects them. But still. I'd "let them in" (whatever that means). It shows they have a line, somewhere, and thus aren't necessarily irredeemable.
                        I gotta little bit of smoke and a whole lotta wine...

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
                          I have not walked a mile in their shoes, so I won’t pretend that I can understand the individual motivations or timing of 10s of thousands of individuals’ decisions. I grant that it is very likely that there are some who are worried about just their own draft status - even then, I have a hard time ever thinking of someone’s self-preservation instinct as selfish.

                          Would you grant that there are probably some people now looking to emigrate who have been actively fighting against the war at great personal risk? Would you really deny them a chance to escape just because some others may not have pure motives? That’s like saying we should shut down SNAP because some people probably sell their food to buy drugs.

                          Finally, there is always a straw that breaks the camel’s back. What if, after the midterms, there is a red wave and the GQP gerrymanders the hell out of all the purple states and you decide it’s finally time to go. However, Canada tells you to fuck off because Trump was elected in 2016 so you’ve had plenty of time to get out before then and they assume you’ve been sitting around on your *** not fighting against the GQP?
                          This is what I am saying.
                          Cornell University
                          National Champion 1967, 1970
                          ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                          Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

                          Comment


                          • Germans granting asylum

                            https://twitter.com/kyivindependent/...245659649?s=21
                            Code:
                            As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                            College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                            BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                            Originally posted by SanTropez
                            May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                            Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                            I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                            Originally posted by Kepler
                            When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                            He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
                              I have not walked a mile in their shoes, so I won’t pretend that I can understand the individual motivations or timing of 10s of thousands of individuals’ decisions. I grant that it is very likely that there are some who are worried about just their own draft status - even then, I have a hard time ever thinking of someone’s self-preservation instinct as selfish.

                              Would you grant that there are probably some people now looking to emigrate who have been actively fighting against the war at great personal risk? Would you really deny them a chance to escape just because some others may not have pure motives? That’s like saying we should shut down SNAP because some people probably sell their food to buy drugs.

                              Finally, there is always a straw that breaks the camel’s back. What if, after the midterms, there is a red wave and the GQP gerrymanders the hell out of all the purple states and you decide it’s finally time to go. However, Canada tells you to fuck off because Trump was elected in 2016 so you’ve had plenty of time to get out before then and they assume you’ve been sitting around on your *** not fighting against the GQP?
                              Bingo. I had been meaning to say I'm with Kepler on this one. Mainly because it's the right thing to do. But you said it better than I could.
                              Code:
                              As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                              College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                              BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                              Originally posted by SanTropez
                              May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                              Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                              I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                              Originally posted by Kepler
                              When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                              He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                              Comment


                              • Again easy for you to say you don't live there...
                                "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                                -aparch

                                "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                                -INCH

                                Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                                -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                                Comment

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