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  • Originally posted by Kepler View Post

    The only people who can't get out of a red state are children, so I feel bad for them.

    Adults can drive out, bus out, or if necessary walk out. Yeah, it would suck. But it sucks more to be a Jew in late 30s Germany. And nobody in a red state now is in a more tenuous position than all the black people who left the South during the Great Migration. Or the Third World refugees who come to the West.

    Come to the reality-based world, swell our ranks, build our House majority. Refugees leave totalitarian states. The red states are now Syria or North Korea. Get out if you want to live.
    I don't at all agree with this. There are lots of families in West Virginia that grew up in coal mining towns, who've owned their home for decades and now find themselves without work and with a home that's quite literally valueless. Or the poor family in Florida who's renting but absolutely can't just pick up stakes and move a few hundred miles to a place where they know no one and have no real leads on jobs.


    Red states aren't solely populated by fascists. More than 5 million Texans voted for Joe Biden in 2020. Are they all unworthy of concern?
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    • Know your audience Swansong...
      "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
      -aparch

      "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
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      • Originally posted by Swansong View Post

        I don't at all agree with this. There are lots of families in West Virginia that grew up in coal mining towns, who've owned their home for decades and now find themselves without work and with a home that's quite literally valueless. Or the poor family in Florida who's renting but absolutely can't just pick up stakes and move a few hundred miles to a place where they know no one and have no real leads on jobs.


        Red states aren't solely populated by fascists. More than 5 million Texans voted for Joe Biden in 2020. Are they all unworthy of concern?
        Not to mention it can cost up to several thousand to move, and for many a blue state would incur a cost of living increase. I imagine many that can logistcally afford the move are doing so.

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        • Originally posted by Swansong View Post

          I don't at all agree with this. There are lots of families in West Virginia that grew up in coal mining towns, who've owned their home for decades and now find themselves without work and with a home that's quite literally valueless. Or the poor family in Florida who's renting but absolutely can't just pick up stakes and move a few hundred miles to a place where they know no one and have no real leads on jobs.


          Red states aren't solely populated by fascists. More than 5 million Texans voted for Joe Biden in 2020. Are they all unworthy of concern?
          Of course they are worthy of concern. Which is why we should welcome them, give them homes and jobs, and repatriot them to America. Good people in red states are like good people living in New Orleans. Leave or suffer the consequences.

          You can care about somebody and still know they would be better off getting away from their abuser. You are basically arguing that women shouldn't leave a man who beats them because well they have no money. F-ck that. That's not a marriage, it's a hostage crisis.

          People's brains turn off when we talk about the poor and disenfranchised, as if that absolves them of all responsibility. It does not. The Jews who left Germany lived and those who stayed died. So. Choose.
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          • Blue states don’t have enough affordable housing and good paying jobs now and you want us to move there?

            The problem isn’t a Red State/Blue State thing. It’s a “this entire country sucks” thing.

            Kepler trying to make Sanctuary Districts an actual thing.
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            • I honestly don't think Kep realizes how much of the country has less than $10K in the bank for an "Oh ****" fund. That he doesn't realize what it's like when your paychecks are already allocated before you receive them.

              Sure, you can live like this fairly comfortably, but as soon as the status quo changes, you need to scramble to make ends meet. It's literally a house of cards situation. Once something is disturbed (like making the move to a blue state), it becomes a rough go.
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              • Originally posted by Kepler View Post

                Of course they are worthy of concern. Which is why we should welcome them, give them homes and jobs, and repatriot them to America. Good people in red states are like good people living in New Orleans. Leave or suffer the consequences.

                You can care about somebody and still know they would be better off getting away from their abuser. You are basically arguing that women shouldn't leave a man who beats them because well they have no money. F-ck that. That's not a marriage, it's a hostage crisis.

                People's brains turn off when we talk about the poor and disenfranchised, as if that absolves them of all responsibility. It does not. The Jews who left Germany lived and those who stayed died. So. Choose.
                Considering that we can't take the Senate seats with us when we leave 30 states to the ogres like this, I don't think this is a viable option.
                "I went over the facts in my head, and admired how much uglier the situation had just become. Over the years I've learned that ignorance is more than just bliss. It's freaking orgasmic ecstasy".- Harry Dresden, Blood Rites


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                • Originally posted by Kepler View Post

                  Of course they are worthy of concern. Which is why we should welcome them, give them homes and jobs, and repatriot them to America. Good people in red states are like good people living in New Orleans. Leave or suffer the consequences.
                  The problem with your overall message:

                  1. It's ****ing easy to move. Just do it
                  2. Even if it isn't and you don't well sorry you have it coming

                  I'm not saying that's your intent.

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                  • Originally posted by Slap Shot View Post

                    The problem with your overall message:

                    1. It's ****ing easy to move. Just do it
                    2. Even if it isn't and you don't well sorry you have it coming

                    I'm not saying that's your intent.
                    That's only the way it is received if you want to receive it that way, which is part of the problem.

                    There are always topics you cannot discuss without insanity following. This is one of them. If you live on the slope of a volcano and you are super poor, you still have to move. You don't get to say "oh noes too hard I poor." It's not I who doesn't care, it's the volcano.
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                    • Red states are volcanoes now? And the Jews who were, for whatever reason, unable to leave Germany, it was their fault? Like, what? Battered women not leaving their abuser is their fault? I would argue your brain is the one turning off when blithely dismissing the insane number of roadblocks someone faces when moving, especially someone who doesn’t have the insane amount of time and wealth you have. So, respectfully, quit telling those of us who are far, far less privileged than you, that we’re the ones being “insane” by respectfully disagreeing with you on this topic. Take the L and move on.

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                      • Originally posted by Kepler View Post

                        The only people who can't get out of a red state are children, so I feel bad for them.

                        Adults can drive out, bus out, or if necessary walk out. Yeah, it would suck. But it sucks more to be a Jew in late 30s Germany. And nobody in a red state now is in a more tenuous position than all the black people who left the South during the Great Migration. Or the Third World refugees who come to the West.

                        Come to the reality-based world, swell our ranks, build our House majority. Refugees leave totalitarian states. The red states are now Syria or North Korea. Get out if you want to live.
                        At first I thought this was sarcasm. The only way this should be said is sarcastically. One thing to say something like this without thought but to actually believe it defies logic. Also shows just how unexposed you are to the barriers it takes to move- including money, lack of resources, lack of shelter, need to care for those incapable of making a move (elderly, children, those with medical conditions, those needing physical care), the need to have access to medical treatment, medications. Wouldn't it be lovely to believe this simplistic view. So much less painful that acknowledging that the pulling up your bootstraps mentality is the way to soothe your soul when there is no easy answer.

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                        • I tend to think that Kepler is right. Money isn't the obstacle. But he is also wrong.

                          The primary roadblock to people moving is fear. Fear of the unknown.

                          They are currently living paycheck to paycheck, but their situation is familiar to them, so they are comfortable with it. Also, for most of them, there is a "support system" in place of parents, siblings, cousins, friends, etc..., that they might be able to count on for a small amount of assistance in a pinch. Giving up the known, the support system, is terrifying. But it's not insurmountable if you are willing to step into the unknown.

                          The history of the migration of people from Europe to this country, the current migration of people from places like west Africa, Mexico and Central America, has all been undertaken by people who are as poor or poorer than anyone currently living in West Virginia or Idaho or anywhere else in this country. You just have to be willing to pack up and take a chance on the unknown.

                          Where Kepler is wrong is that there is presently no need for people to leave the "red states." They are not the side of a volcano, they are not some poor jungle village in Central America, and they aren't 1930's Nazi Germany, despite Kepler's repeated efforts to paint them as such. North Dakota was a spectacular place to grow up and live, and I wouldn't hesitate to live there again if I felt the need to move.

                          That's why people aren't taking Kepler's advice and fleeing the red states. It has nothing to do with their economic status or any fear of the unknown. They are perfectly happy where they are.
                          That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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                          • Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                            They are perfectly happy where they are.
                            ...until something happens (like a medical emergency in the ninth month of pregnancy) and then they are miserable.
                            **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

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                            Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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                            • Picking up and moving costs money. If you are living paycheck to paycheck you don't have the disposable income to be able to make such a move...and that doesn't even factor in the housing part of the scenario. When you are in your twenties you can just pack up your car and move along but the older you get the less likely that is. If you are married with a family it can cost a lot of money to pick up and move even within your own city let alone another state and if you are light on disposable income you are then eating up all your savings. Not an easy financial decision and one that will set you back quite a bit.

                              Now if you add in the cost of the new either mortgage or rent you might take a huge hit very quickly and if you are living paycheck to paycheck you might not be able to handle that, especially if you need to rent for a bit where you are talking probably two months upfront plus a deposit. If you are buying better have a nice downpayment ready...even if you sell your place before you leave you are likely blowing all of that just to get a new one and you are likely getting smoked on fees. Plus you need to find a job, good schools for your kids...etc.

                              You guys act like the people you are talking about are freshmen getting ready for college. In reality these are people with families and likely just enough money to survive their situation and you act like they can just decide to pick up and leave there will be no consequences for it. This isn't the game The Oregon Trail, you don 't just pick a month and a profession and hope you don't die of diphtheria. The process of uprooting a life and moving somewhere hundreds or thousands of miles away can be a friggin mess even if you are of means...when you don't it can be a disaster.
                              "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                              -aparch

                              "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                              -INCH

                              Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                              -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

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                              • Humans are wanderers. They have been since the beginning. We constantly migrate to places where we think there are better opportunities for life. Notwithstanding all of the hand-wringing around here over supposed obstacles to moving, at no time in history has it been easier to move than right now. Transportation is easier. The ability to search for housing and jobs is substantially easier than at any time in history.

                                Again, people aren't fleeing red states because they see no reason to do so.
                                That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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