117th Congress: DEMS IN DISARRAY!!!111!!

[French Rage]

Except in this case, the Progressives are fighting for the linked Infrastructure/Reconciliation package, which is what everyone in both houses agreed to, and what Biden wants done.

You pass one by itself, and the other dies, and will likely never stand a chance of coming up again.

I myself prefer both. The House and the President also prefer both. But without the Senate, that and a dollar get you a cup of coffee. I understand the importance of not taking just Infrastructure from the get-go as you lose your negotiating position, but at some point when every strategy has been tried and it it still fails, you have to take something to show. I can't pretend to tell you where that point is, but it needs to exist somewhere.

[Handyman]

And if you block it you get neither. The link aint happening because Manchin and Sinema dont need it. (The ****ing President can't persuade them let alone their constituents) The game is rigged and everyone seems to get it but The Progressives.

You can't beat people who are this openly vile and willing to take the heat for it: https://twitter.com/NoLieWithBTC/sta...32835531182080

JUST IN: Kyrsten Sinema has left DC amid negotiations. Her spokesman says it's for a doctor's appointment "for a foot injury." But a hotel just confirmed she will be at her PAC’s retreat with donors for cocktails and dinner at a high-end resort and spa in Phoenix. (@nytimes)

The Progressives are playing chicken with people who have no problems getting into a car accident. It is the same game they tried against Trump...when people don't have shame or care what anyone thinks they will do whatever they want and laugh when people get angry. All that happens is you look foolish and end up in a worse position later to bargain.

You don't continue playing by the same rules when the game changes. You take what you can and then **** them later.

[Handyman]

I myself prefer both. The House and the President also prefer both. But without the Senate, that and a dollar get you a cup of coffee. I understand the importance of not taking just Infrastructure from the get-go as you lose your negotiating position, but at some point when every strategy has been tried and it it still fails, you have to take something to show. I can't pretend to tell you where that point is, but it needs to exist somewhere.

This. Hell I think Reconciliation is light and should go for everything **** the Parliamentarian. That is a losing fight though. Sometimes you have to just accept you only can get so much...

If the political climate was normal I would be 100% behind them. (I voted for Bernie twice for a ****ing reason) But no bill is worth the fallout that is likely to come. This is about more than just this bill...

[Kepler]

This was not the hill to die on for the Progressives.

It never is.

The time for seriously considering progressive legislation must be right after the time for discussing gun control.

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Saw al Franken tonight. Had some great Ted Cruz stories. Talked about how Dems never message well.

klobuchar was in audience

[Kepler]

[aparch]

[MissThundercat]

Yep, she looks like Velma from Scooby Doo had a midlife crisis.

[aparch]

FOX News buries lede, hopes readers won't scroll past headline.

Democrat Tammy Duckworth hasn’t paid property tax on her Illinois home since 2015, report says

The U.S. senator takes advantage of a county tax break for disabled veterans that applies regardless of income, a report says

[rufus]

And if you block it you get neither. The link aint happening because Manchin and Sinema dont need it. (The ****ing President can't persuade them let alone their constituents) The game is rigged and everyone seems to get it but The Progressives.

You can't beat people who are this openly vile and willing to take the heat for it: https://twitter.com/NoLieWithBTC/sta...32835531182080



The Progressives are playing chicken with people who have no problems getting into a car accident. It is the same game they tried against Trump...when people don't have shame or care what anyone thinks they will do whatever they want and laugh when people get angry. All that happens is you look foolish and end up in a worse position later to bargain.

You don't continue playing by the same rules when the game changes. You take what you can and then **** them later.

Except Biden is with the Progressives on this. It's up to the Moderates to get in line, and support their president.

Why is it always "The Progressives" who are acting irresponsibly, or the ones who need to just shut up and take it? This entire process is being held up by two people, Sinema and Manchin, neither of whom are members of "The Progressives".

[dxmnkd316]

Except Biden is with the Progressives on this. It's up to the Moderates to get in line, and support their president.

Why is it always "The Progressives" who are acting irresponsibly, or the ones who need to just shut up and take it? This entire process is being held up by two people, Sinema and Manchin, neither of whom are members of "The Progressives".

Until the progressives can start winning enough elections to actually hold power, then this is what we're stuck with. French and Handy have explained pretty clearly what the options are:

You take something or you get nothing. Those are the options. The progs don't have the votes to do anything else. Hell, the Dems don't have the votes to do anything else.

Win a couple more senate seats and this isn't a problem.

[Kepler]

Win a couple more senate seats and this isn't a problem.

This is the key here.

"Moderate" (read: conservative) Democrats are very much like white males (for the good reason that they primarily are). They simply don't see their entitlement. They have the unconscious certainty that "serious" or "popular" or "practical" opposition to the Fascists is them, and then the Others are nice to haves but just going to have to go along. This is exactly how white males have treated women and non-whites throughout history. It is no surprise that they sacrifice those Others first thing. It's how they will always think -- if they didn't, they would not be conservative Democrats.

But we on the Left need to understand that. We aren't going to war with the army we wish we had. We have to deal with things the way they are right now. We will always have to battle the DNC and the vested interests in the primaries and, barring a sudden upwards thrust in IQ, we will typically have an electoral disadvantage, for roughly the same reason that Democrats writ large will always have to deal with systemic biases in favor of conservatives.

So be it. For this cycle we can't use our leverage because we care about the consequences for vulnerable people far more than conservative Democrats do. Take my self-interest for example. I'll be okay, no matter what happens. In terms of my personal life there's no urgency. I'll be fine. So I could very well say "you come to me," and hold my breath, and only the poor and women and POC would be hurt. I just don't do that because of the worms in my head. But I could and since majorities will always choose their self-interest that means in any staring contest the right -- the side that doesn't give a crap -- always has the advantage.

If we get to 58 Democratic Senators we can at least tell Joe and Kristin to pound sand. We will still have to fight conservative Democrats, but at least we won't be fighting a guy like Manchin who voted for Kavanaugh and favored pulling out of the Paris Accord. The more folks we have the better for the Left and the better for people in general.

I'm not saying it doesn't suck. Entitlement is always insolent and infuriating. But, take the high road, again. It saves lives.

[dxmnkd316]

Exactly. No one is saying progs shouldn't feel upset about it or that they should be happy about it. (No one worth listening to.)

Get angry and elect the leftmost candidate who can win in each race.

(Pro tip: manchin is as extreme an example as we can get. We should make sure he sits in that seat for as long as he wants it. Capito won by 40 points.)

[Handyman]

When I saw that on Twitter I literally fell out of my chair laughing!

[Handyman]

Poor Jim Carey...