117th Congress: DEMS IN DISARRAY!!!111!!

[Kepler]

It’s a mixed bag to say the least. I’m not a huge fan of giving money to businesses and some of the stuff in there doesn’t have much to do with the pandemic. I’d vote for it but would have to hold my nose some.

Claw it back with tax hikes.

Pass the stupid thing. The Nazis abandoned this country for so long we have to get things going again. Govern well, win elections, tax the rich out of existence.

[aparch]

Susan Collins has expressed her displeasure with the minimum wage hike at $15/hr, and now even at Manchin's $11/hr. Says she would support a $10/hr minimum wage and that's it.



Unrelated: Maine, the state that Susan Collins was elected to represent, adjusted their minimum wage this past January to be $12.15/hr. Or for those bad at math, that's $2.15 *MORE* than Susan Collins believes people in her state should be paid.

[Jimjamesak]

The airport wave is worth $2.15 though.

[LynahFan]

Susan Collins has expressed her displeasure with the minimum wage hike at $15/hr, and now even at Manchin's $11/hr. Says she would support a $10/hr minimum wage and that's it.



Unrelated: Maine, the state that Susan Collins was elected to represent, adjusted their minimum wage this past January to be $12.15/hr. Or for those bad at math, that's $2.15 *MORE* than Susan Collins believes people in her state should be paid.

Hang on sec. I love ragging on Collins as much as the next sane person, but 1) we don't know whether she agrees with the $12.15 per hour set by her state's government, and 2) even then, when setting nationwide policy, she has to consider what she thinks the optimal minimum wage is in Alabama, Kansas, etc, not just Maine.

It is not at all inconsistent to think that people in one state should be paid X and in another state should be paid Y. I agree that NYC, for example, should have its own minimum wage that is higher than the national average.

[SJHovey]

Hang on sec. I love ragging on Collins as much as the next sane person, but 1) we don't know whether she agrees with the $12.15 per hour set by her state's government, and 2) even then, when setting nationwide policy, she has to consider what she thinks the optimal minimum wage is in Alabama, Kansas, etc, not just Maine.

It is not at all inconsistent to think that people in one state should be paid X and in another state should be paid Y. I agree that NYC, for example, should have its own minimum wage that is higher than the national average.

I agree with this to some extent.

I completely agree with the idea that an appropriate minimum wage in say San Francisco or NYC is completely different than it would be in Wimbledon, ND. That's the problem that you get into with people like Manchin and Collins, and others, when we decide that a one size fits all approach works in this country.

On the other hand, I don't think it really works to have all 1000 cities and towns in the State of NY adopt their own minimum wage. There is a balancing act. I tend to think that it's not a terrible idea to leave it at a state level, although there have to be exceptions for very large municipalities.

[LynahFan]

when we decide that a one size fits all approach works in this country

Canard alert!

Suggesting a national minimum wage of $15 does NOT imply that anyone thinks that $15 is the correct wage for everywhere in the country. "Minimum," by definition, means that it could be higher - it is not a one-size-fits all.

[SJHovey]

Canard alert!

Suggesting a national minimum wage of $15 does NOT imply that anyone thinks that $15 is the correct wage for everywhere in the country. "Minimum," by definition, means that it could be higher - it is not a one-size-fits all.

What are you complaining about then? We have a federal minimum wage. If NYC wants to go higher, or Maine wants to go higher, go higher.

[LynahFan]

What are you complaining about then? We have a federal minimum wage. If NYC wants to go higher, or Maine wants to go higher, go higher.

So who was the "we" you were referring to, who was allegedly trying to adopt a one-size-fits-all approach? As far as I know, nobody is suggesting a one-sized-fits-all approach. So what were you trying to say?

[aparch]

Hang on sec. I love ragging on Collins as much as the next sane person, but 1) we don't know whether she agrees with the $12.15 per hour set by her state's government, and 2) even then, when setting nationwide policy, she has to consider what she thinks the optimal minimum wage is in Alabama, Kansas, etc, not just Maine.

Okay, I understand. I get that Senators are more state level decisions and representatives are regional, but it just seems odd that she's more concerned with how other states are going to react than her own state.

[SJHovey]

So who was the "we" you were referring to, who was allegedly trying to adopt a one-size-fits-all approach? As far as I know, nobody is suggesting a one-sized-fits-all approach. So what were you trying to say?

What I'm saying is this. If you try to raise the federal minimum wage above, and in some cases substantially above what the states have set as their own minimum wage, you (the federal government) are basically saying "we don't care about the differences between areas of the country, and the different costs of living, etc..."

If you make $7.50 an hour in rural North Dakota, it probably doesn't feel much different than making $15.00/hr in NYC. I can't imagine trying to live in NYC or San Francisco or a similar place on $15.00/hr.

Honestly, the feds ought to stay out of the minimum wage game. The differences are simply too vast in this country.

[SJHovey]

It would be like trying to set a "world minimum wage." You think the cost of living, and what businesses can afford to pay in wages, are the same in Hong Kong as they are in some small city in Egypt?

Since we're in the business of setting minimum wages, why not set it at $100/hr? $15 is nothing. Wouldn't people be better off making $200,000+ each year for tending bar?

[JF_Gophers]

The real change that is needed is to raise wait staffs minimum wage. The ~$2 they are making is stupid.

[cF[Authentic]]

What I'm saying is this. If you try to raise the federal minimum wage above, and in some cases substantially above what the states have set as their own minimum wage, you (the federal government) are basically saying "we don't care about the differences between areas of the country, and the different costs of living, etc..."

If you make $7.50 an hour in rural North Dakota, it probably doesn't feel much different than making $15.00/hr in NYC. I can't imagine trying to live in NYC or San Francisco or a similar place on $15.00/hr.

Honestly, the feds ought to stay out of the minimum wage game. The differences are simply too vast in this country.

You're thinking about it backwards. Just because some states are above the current minimum wage, but below $15, it doesn't mean people in those states are being paid a livable wage.

In this case, it's the federal government saying a person living in the least expensive place in America deserves to make $15 an hour.
But as you said, there needs to be state control over locations with higher cost of living.
so they can then choose to raise it higher.

[LynahFan]

You're thinking about it backwards. Just because some states are above the current minimum wage, but below $15, it doesn't mean people in those states are being paid a livable wage.

In this case, it's the federal government saying a person living in the least expensive place in America deserves to make $15 an hour.
But as you said, there needs to be state control over locations with higher cost of living.
so they can then choose to raise it higher.

Exactly right. This should be a wakeup call to those more expensive places, or I guarantee they will lose their working class folks. Who wouldn't rather earn $15/hr while paying $500/mo rent in Podunk rather than $1500/mo in Brooklyn? If expensive places don't raise their wages commensurately, they are signaling that they don't mind losing those folks - and they will.

[psych]

You're thinking about it backwards. Just because some states are above the current minimum wage, but below $15, it doesn't mean people in those states are being paid a livable wage.

In this case, it's the federal government saying a person living in the least expensive place in America deserves to make $15 an hour.
But as you said, there needs to be state control over locations with higher cost of living.
so they can then choose to raise it higher.

And if West Virginia isn’t the floor when it comes to wages and cost-of-living, it’s damn near close. If Manchin thinks West Virginia can afford $11/hr., basically anywhere in this country can.