117th Congress: DEMS IN DISARRAY!!!111!!

[SJHovey]

What happens? Conservatism.

Maybe better hold off on adding Puerto Rico as that 51st state.

Lobbying with Quakers???

[Handyman]

Then he better get selling, cause I haven't heard a whole lot of PR stuff coming from the WH. Maybe after final passage, but they gotta get moving. They gotta learn how to play the game. Cause we're allready hearing from the Repubs just how this bill hurts people, whether its true or not.

He is doing plenty of selling. I get no less than 5 emails about it every few days from a variety of Democrats but at least 2 from him "personally". He has either himself or others associated with him talking and selling it all the time. He is lightyears ahead of where Obama was on this stuff.

The bill is popular because he talks about it every time he is in front of a camera or on Twitter.

[Handyman]

So Manchin said he's open to changing filibuster rules to a "talking filibuster" where you have to stay on the floor and speak. Yes please.

He also said he is open to party-line votes but only AFTER the Dems try and work with the GOP first. Basically fight to get 10 votes and if the GOP stonewalls then you can go for a win with 50. I think I read that he wants the VRA to pass and knows they don't have 10 votes since they couldnt get even 1 for COVID Relief which is wildly popular.

If true then I will take back everything I said about him. Also, I would guess if he flips Sinema will as well since her constituency (especially Maricopa) are for most of the Biden agenda.

[unofan]

Maybe better hold off on adding Puerto Rico as that 51st state.

Lobbying with Quakers???

If I remember right, Puerto Ricans don't qualify for social security or many other federal benefits despite being American citizens. So you make them the 51st state, their poverty rate declines almost immediately as they suddenly get all the same benefits of every other state.

[psych]

He also said he is open to party-line votes but only AFTER the Dems try and work with the GOP first. Basically fight to get 10 votes and if the GOP stonewalls then you can go for a win with 50. I think I read that he wants the VRA to pass and knows they don't have 10 votes since they couldnt get even 1 for COVID Relief which is wildly popular.

If true then I will take back everything I said about him. Also, I would guess if he flips Sinema will as well since her constituency (especially Maricopa) are for most of the Biden agenda.

You certainly don’t need it, but I give you permission to still hate the guy. If Biden wasn’t president, and someone like Obama was, it’s possible Manchin votes for the GOP amendment on unemployment instead of the Democrats’ version. That’s just ****ing unacceptable. THAT said, he ended up voting for the bill, got very few concessions in return (our hawk-eyed resident troll spotting the death knells for Dems in the midterms next year notwithstanding), and now this filibuster conversation that he had publicly without prompting from anyone. Potentially a big deal. Geezus I love politics.

[rufus]

He is doing plenty of selling. I get no less than 5 emails about it every few days from a variety of Democrats but at least 2 from him "personally". He has either himself or others associated with him talking and selling it all the time. He is lightyears ahead of where Obama was on this stuff.

The bill is popular because he talks about it every time he is in front of a camera or on Twitter.

You're not the one he needs to be selling to.

[psych]

You're not the one he needs to be selling to.

I respectfully disagree. Far as I can tell, Handy appears to be a highly educated middle-class white man living in the suburbs of a light blue state. He’s exactly who Biden needs to be targeting. We all know Handy is a progressive Democrat, but his neighbors may not be. You are absolutely free to be worried that Democrats are going to **** up the PR on this, but I think Biden has learned an assload from his time in the Senate and as Veep to Obama. I think he’s going to execute this better than almost anyone else.

[Handyman]

You certainly don’t need it, but I give you permission to still hate the guy. If Biden wasn’t president, and someone like Obama was, it’s possible Manchin votes for the GOP amendment on unemployment instead of the Democrats’ version. That’s just ****ing unacceptable. THAT said, he ended up voting for the bill, got very few concessions in return (our hawk-eyed resident troll spotting the death knells for Dems in the midterms next year notwithstanding), and now this filibuster conversation that he had publicly without prompting from anyone. Potentially a big deal. Geezus I love politics.

Hey now I never said I would like him...just take back the mean stuff. I can understand a principled take like that because that is kind of how it is supposed to work. The threat of nuking the filibuster (whether in total or just on a case by case basis) should force people to the table. IN THEORY you should never have to go party line because the other side should we willing to listen. The filibuster itself should never be weaponized as much as it is, and nuking it is the check.

But I don't trust Manchin that much...there is more to this. If he is being truthful and he is willing to bend on party line voting that means he got some crap from the people back home. Maybe they hated him being the face of a movement that blocks COVID relief and higher wages. We will find out I am sure.

[Kepler]

I respectfully disagree. Far as I can tell, Handy appears to be a highly educated middle-class white man living in the suburbs of a light blue state. He’s exactly who Biden needs to be targeting. We all know Handy is a progressive Democrat, but his neighbors may not be. You are absolutely free to be worried that Democrats are going to **** up the PR on this, but I think Biden has learned an assload from his time in the Senate and as Veep to Obama. I think he’s going to execute this better than almost anyone else.

The highly educated we have. We need the middle educated: bidness degree from Square State University, owns a hardware store, a shoe store, a furniture store. The National Retail Federation's clients. In a word: Main Street.

Right now those people are still Republicans because they're terrified of socialism and they are racist AF. But the latter is changing. Retail America outside of the behemoths is becoming much more diverse. It used to be those middle level businesses were only run by POC in NYC, Chicago, LA, DC, and the Black Belt, but now it's true in every large city and even second tier cities in whitey states. Retail America is starting to look like all of America and pretty soon small business will be 50/50.

We need all those folks, except the completely braindead Evangies, to be straight ticket Dems.

[Handyman]

You're not the one he needs to be selling to.

You know I put that in there because I knew you wouldn't actually read what I posted...

If you think Biden isnt out selling the bill you are either not paying attention or only watching Right Wing Media. FFS the bill is even popular with Republican voters...you think they are learning about it from reading Green Eggs and Ham? Every time he is on TV he talks about it. (I am sure it will be discussed in depth when he does his national address on COVID) It comes up at Psaki's PCs. Twitter is damned near spammed with mentions about it from media types, politcos, the administration and Biden himself. That is why the Right stopped whining about it they don't control the narrative on this one and haven't really since it hit the Senate.

Sorry but if you aren't seeing it that is because you aren't paying attention.

[psych]

The highly educated we have. We need the middle educated: bidness degree from Square State University, owns a hardware store, a shoe store, a furniture store. The National Retail Federation's clients. In a word: Main Street.

Right now those people are still Republicans because they're terrified of socialism and, to be fair, their racist AF. But the latter is changing. Retail America outside of the behemoths is becoming much more diverse. It used to be those middle level businesses were only run by POC in NYC, Chicago, and LA, but now it's true in every large city and even second tier cities in whitey states. Retail America is starting top look like all of America and pretty soon small business will be 50/50.

We need all those folks as Dems.

When I say highly educated, I mean at least a bachelor’s degree. Living in Kentucky, a bachelor’s degree is highly educated. If you’re talking master’s or higher, I agree we have most of them. I’m thinking suburbanites. Let’s get more of them and keep them permanently. I think we can, and I obviously hope we will.

[psych]

You know I put that in there because I knew you wouldn't actually read what I posted...

If you think Biden isnt out selling the bill you are either not paying attention or only watching Right Wing Media. FFS the bill is even popular with Republican voters...you think they are learning about it from reading Green Eggs and Ham? Every time he is on TV he talks about it. (I am sure it will be discussed in depth when he does his national address on COVID) It comes up at Psaki's PCs. Twitter is damned near spammed with mentions about it from media types, politcos, the administration and Biden himself. That is why the Right stopped whining about it they don't control the narrative on this one and haven't really since it hit the Senate.

Sorry but if you aren't seeing it that is because you aren't paying attention.

CNN displayed a chyron a few minutes ago that read: Democrats Pass Popular Covid Bill With 0 Republican Votes. Keep hammering that sh-t home. Every. Damn. Day. Republicans don’t give a **** about your families. 0. ****s.

[Kepler]

When I say highly educated, I mean at least a bachelor’s degree. Living in Kentucky, a bachelor’s degree is highly educated. If you’re talking master’s or higher, I agree we have most of them. I’m thinking suburbanites. Let’s get more of them and keep them permanently. I think we can, and I obviously hope we will.

Got it.

I think of:

highly educated: med school, PhD, tier 1 BA
educated: business, engineering, or law degree, other BA
undereducated: no BA
uneducated: no HS diploma

My estimate of the breakdown:

POC

highly educated: 90% Dem
educated: 90% Dem
undereducated: 80% Dem
uneducated: 70% Dem

White

highly educated: 90% Dem
educated: 70% Dem
undereducated: 40% Dem
uneducated: 20% Dem

[rufus]

I respectfully disagree. Far as I can tell, Handy appears to be a highly educated middle-class white man living in the suburbs of a light blue state. He’s exactly who Biden needs to be targeting. We all know Handy is a progressive Democrat, but his neighbors may not be. You are absolutely free to be worried that Democrats are going to **** up the PR on this, but I think Biden has learned an assload from his time in the Senate and as Veep to Obama. I think he’s going to execute this better than almost anyone else.

So yeah. Handy, an avowed progressive Democrat, does not need to be bombarded with emails from other progressive Democrats telling him what a great thing this bill is for him. That's preaching to the choir.

His neighbors, as you say, yes, they need to be getting that message. Presumably from other sources than Handy, who's a flaming Commie socialist in their eyes. Also, presumably, his neighbors aren't on the same Progressive email chains that Handy is, so there need to be more widespread and far-ranging methods of getting that news out to them.

So get the word out. To as many outlets and voices and common citizens that you can, using every resource available.

[Kepler]

Blunt out. It's MO so expect the next Senator to be 1000x worse. Maybe we'll get another Qhristian.