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117th Congress: DEMS IN DISARRAY!!!111!!

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  • Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
    Honestly, including the $15/hr minimum wage plan in this bill was a misstep by Biden.

    The country is in a situation where a ton of people are out of work and a lot of jobs where the minimum wage might be pretty common (service industry jobs) have been hit hard by the pandemic. Why die on the minimum wage increase, or any other proposal where there is actually a financial disincentive for employers to keep current employees or hire new employees?
    Proof of correlation please.

    Do you have any idea how far out of whack the minimum wage is compared to the late 60's? Big Corpie has been leeching this country dry for decades now. And I guarantee the Republicans don't take no for an answer on any of their wants.
    **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

    Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
    Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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    • Originally posted by psych View Post
      He said he supports $11/hr. Roll with that and move on. $11 > $7.25.
      I suspect, but haven't seen any evidence, that this would get widespread public support as part of a $1.5 T package (my conservative instinct is that you're right). Doubling minimum to 15 in one go seems suspiciously progressive and might cost Joe some goodwill among people who are paying dishwashers and blueberry pickers by the hour.
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      • Originally posted by geezer View Post

        I suspect, but haven't seen any evidence, that this would get widespread public support as part of a $1.5 T package (my conservative instinct is that you're right). Doubling minimum to 15 in one go seems suspiciously progressive and might cost Joe some goodwill among people who are paying dishwashers and blueberry pickers by the hour.
        Assuming this is the plan introduced last week, it won’t double it overnight. It would gradually go up through 2025.
        Go Green! Go White! Go State!

        1966, 1986, 2007

        Go Tigers, Go Packers, Go Red Wings, Go Pistons

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        • Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
          Honestly, including the $15/hr minimum wage plan in this bill was a misstep by Biden.

          The country is in a situation where a ton of people are out of work and a lot of jobs where the minimum wage might be pretty common (service industry jobs) have been hit hard by the pandemic. Why die on the minimum wage increase, or any other proposal where there is actually a financial disincentive for employers to keep current employees or hire new employees?
          My god that this talking point still exists...

          Go back to telling us gay marriage threatens traditional marriage or unemployment insurance destroys work ethic. That makes as little sense as this.
          Cornell University
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          • Originally posted by Spartanforlife4 View Post

            Assuming this is the plan introduced last week, it won’t double it overnight. It would gradually go up through 2025.
            I spend an hour a day reading about politics, and all I knew is that they proposed jacking it up to $15. The "gradual increase" should probably be a bigger part of the message.
            Huskies are very intelligent and trainable. Huskies make an excellent jogging companion, as long as it is not too hot. Grooming is minimal; bathing is normally unnecessary.
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            • Originally posted by geezer View Post

              I spend an hour a day reading about politics, and all I knew is that they proposed jacking it up to $15. The "gradual increase" should probably be a bigger part of the message.
              Then you have people complain that it should already be $15 and $15 won't be enough by then. Those people are already on the side of increasing though, so I guess you don't need to worry about them.
              Go Green! Go White! Go State!

              1966, 1986, 2007

              Go Tigers, Go Packers, Go Red Wings, Go Pistons

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              • Originally posted by Kepler View Post

                My god that this talking point still exists...

                Go back to telling us gay marriage threatens traditional marriage or unemployment insurance destroys work ethic. That makes as little sense as this.
                Don't forget the $10 Big Mac since a $15 wage instantly makes everything triple in price.
                Go Green! Go White! Go State!

                1966, 1986, 2007

                Go Tigers, Go Packers, Go Red Wings, Go Pistons

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                • We should have been at $15 years ago.

                  When Minneapolis raised its wage the last few years we hear all the same stuff Hovey said (the lame GOP talking points) and it literally never comes to fruition. It is such a crock but people eat it up. It is just lazy.
                  "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                  -aparch

                  "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
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                  • Originally posted by Spartanforlife4 View Post

                    Don't forget the $10 Big Mac since a $15 wage instantly makes everything triple in price.
                    I am still waiting for the $5 a gallon gas those same people said was coming when Obama won. The thread on here about that was a classic.

                    If your business can't afford a gradual minimum wage increase to give people a living wage then your business sucks and you should be Darwined out.
                    "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                    -aparch

                    "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                    -INCH

                    Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                    -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

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                    • Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                      We should have been at $15 years ago.

                      When Minneapolis raised its wage the last few years we hear all the same stuff Hovey said (the lame GOP talking points) and it literally never comes to fruition. It is such a crock but people eat it up. It is just lazy.
                      If you actually follow up on it, check on the studies that are done years later, what you see is this. The effect on levels of employment, overall, is not real significant in one direction or the other. But you also see that it's a mixed bag. In some industries, like service industries, employment is actually hit quite hard, including things like child care (not sure why that is).

                      So, you can choose to ignore it. I really don't care. But obviously many politicians don't.
                      That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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                      • For those who still don't understand why there's such a push for a higher min. wage:

                        I've been in and out of retail for over 10 years. And while I will tell you the physical aspect isn't that hard (not for me, anyway), I will tell you getting berated by some middle age WASP for something that's way outside your pay grade is emotionally taxing. I get called "sir" by customers all day. That sucks. I've had friends who get called fat and are insulted for even daring to take a lunch or get a light snack while at work. One day, I pulled a dirty diaper out of a cart.

                        Then there's managers who criticize you for daring to use the bathroom. Who tell you you need to keep up, without jumping into the fray themselves. Who will downgrade you or decide to terminate you because every customer you asked that day declined to apply for the store credit card or sign up for the advanced membership. So on.
                        And to get up every day, put on your Customer Service Personality, the one who went to Harvard, does 3 hours of yoga daily, drinks green smoothies with 27 exotic ingredients, and pretends nothing is ever wrong for 8 to 10 hours a day before going home... that's a skill. And while I've been in retail, I've witnessed several of my peers fall into heavy drinking or smoking or various addictions to cope.

                        This is why I have no issues with retail/service employees being paid a higher minimum wage. A lot of my peers are simply asking if they have to put on the Customer Service Personality, to make it worth their time and efforts.
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                        • Originally posted by SJHovey View Post

                          If you actually follow up on it, check on the studies that are done years later, what you see is this. The effect on levels of employment, overall, is not real significant in one direction or the other. But you also see that it's a mixed bag. In some industries, like service industries, employment is actually hit quite hard, including things like child care (not sure why that is).

                          So, you can choose to ignore it. I really don't care. But obviously many politicians don't.
                          Perhaps we should invest more in childcare then? If only there were a president with a childcare plan...
                          Go Green! Go White! Go State!

                          1966, 1986, 2007

                          Go Tigers, Go Packers, Go Red Wings, Go Pistons

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                          • Originally posted by Handyman View Post

                            I am still waiting for the $5 a gallon gas those same people said was coming when Obama won. The thread on here about that was a classic.

                            If your business can't afford a gradual minimum wage increase to give people a living wage then your business sucks and you should be Darwined out.
                            Didn’t you get the memo? Gas won’t go up until after Obama collects the guns

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                            • Originally posted by Spartanforlife4 View Post

                              Don't forget the $10 Big Mac since a $15 wage instantly makes everything triple in price.
                              Conservatives live in a cramped mental world where anything that helps people is immediately suspect. Hovey is the same as my co-worker who, when I gave a homeless guy a twenty at a red light, said "I wonder how many of those guys are just conning you?"

                              Because that was really the first thing he thought of: the alpha error of somebody not in need of money getting it. He gave no thought at all to the infinitely more numerous cases of people in desperate need and the beta error of them being denied help for fear of fraud. And this guy is a preacher's son and views himself as an ardent Christian.

                              That's the small-minded, tight-fisted mindset Milton Friedman unleashed upon the nation in 1980 via Saint Ronnie and his voodoo economics, and the barely concealed racial bigotry that fueled it. The Plutes have used it to ride rube conservatives to our neo-feudal hellscape, and still these poor dopes repeat the same idiotic tropes they have been force fed.

                              Hovey and his ilk aren't sociopaths. They are suckers. Their fears are exploited by much smarter rich people to continue the upwards massive wealth distribution of Reagan and Bush and even Clinton economics. Their brains are beyond washed -- they are sandblasted.
                              Last edited by Kepler; 02-02-2021, 05:32 PM.
                              Cornell University
                              National Champion 1967, 1970
                              ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                              Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                              • Originally posted by SJHovey View Post

                                If you actually follow up on it, check on the studies that are done years later, what you see is this. The effect on levels of employment, overall, is not real significant in one direction or the other. But you also see that it's a mixed bag. In some industries, like service industries, employment is actually hit quite hard, including things like child care (not sure why that is).

                                So, you can choose to ignore it. I really don't care. But obviously many politicians don't.
                                Oh horse hockey. What you see are "studies" paid for by industries who use the minimum wage as an excuse for job cutting they were already going to do anyway to try to prevent further wage increases in the future.

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