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117th Congress: DEMS IN DISARRAY!!!111!!

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  • Originally posted by rufus View Post
    Except in this case, the Progressives are fighting for the linked Infrastructure/Reconciliation package, which is what everyone in both houses agreed to, and what Biden wants done.

    You pass one by itself, and the other dies, and will likely never stand a chance of coming up again.
    I myself prefer both. The House and the President also prefer both. But without the Senate, that and a dollar get you a cup of coffee. I understand the importance of not taking just Infrastructure from the get-go as you lose your negotiating position, but at some point when every strategy has been tried and it it still fails, you have to take something to show. I can't pretend to tell you where that point is, but it needs to exist somewhere.

    Cornell '04, Stanford '06


    KDR

    Rover Frenchy, Classic! Great post.
    iwh30 I wish I could be as smart as you. I really do you are the man
    gregg729 I just saw your sig, you do love having people revel in your "intelligence."
    Ritt18 you are the perfect representation of your alma mater.
    Miss Thundercat That's it, you win.
    TBA#2 I want to kill you and dance in your blood.
    DisplacedCornellian Hahaha. Thread over. Frenchy wins.

    Test to see if I can add this.

    Comment


    • And if you block it you get neither. The link aint happening because Manchin and Sinema dont need it. (The fucking President can't persuade them let alone their constituents) The game is rigged and everyone seems to get it but The Progressives.

      You can't beat people who are this openly vile and willing to take the heat for it: https://twitter.com/NoLieWithBTC/sta...32835531182080

      JUST IN: Kyrsten Sinema has left DC amid negotiations. Her spokesman says it's for a doctor's appointment "for a foot injury." But a hotel just confirmed she will be at her PAC’s retreat with donors for cocktails and dinner at a high-end resort and spa in Phoenix. (@nytimes)
      The Progressives are playing chicken with people who have no problems getting into a car accident. It is the same game they tried against Trump...when people don't have shame or care what anyone thinks they will do whatever they want and laugh when people get angry. All that happens is you look foolish and end up in a worse position later to bargain.

      You don't continue playing by the same rules when the game changes. You take what you can and then fuck them later.
      "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
      -aparch

      "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
      -INCH

      Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
      -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

      Comment


      • Originally posted by French Rage View Post

        I myself prefer both. The House and the President also prefer both. But without the Senate, that and a dollar get you a cup of coffee. I understand the importance of not taking just Infrastructure from the get-go as you lose your negotiating position, but at some point when every strategy has been tried and it it still fails, you have to take something to show. I can't pretend to tell you where that point is, but it needs to exist somewhere.
        This. Hell I think Reconciliation is light and should go for everything fuck the Parliamentarian. That is a losing fight though. Sometimes you have to just accept you only can get so much...

        If the political climate was normal I would be 100% behind them. (I voted for Bernie twice for a fucking reason) But no bill is worth the fallout that is likely to come. This is about more than just this bill...
        "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
        -aparch

        "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
        -INCH

        Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
        -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Handyman View Post
          This was not the hill to die on for the Progressives.
          It never is.

          The time for seriously considering progressive legislation must be right after the time for discussing gun control.
          Cornell University
          National Champion 1967, 1970
          ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
          Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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          • Saw al Franken tonight. Had some great Ted Cruz stories. Talked about how Dems never message well.

            klobuchar was in audience

            Comment


            • Cornell University
              National Champion 1967, 1970
              ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
              Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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              • “Demolish the bridges behind you… then there is no choice but to build again.”

                Live Radio from 100.3

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                • Originally posted by aparch View Post
                  Yep, she looks like Velma from Scooby Doo had a midlife crisis.
                  Facebook: bcowles920 Instagram: missthundercat01
                  "One word frees us from the weight and pain of this life. That word is love."- Socrates
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                  • FOX News buries lede, hopes readers won't scroll past headline.

                    Democrat Tammy Duckworth hasn’t paid property tax on her Illinois home since 2015, report says

                    The U.S. senator takes advantage of a county tax break for disabled veterans that applies regardless of income, a report says
                    “Demolish the bridges behind you… then there is no choice but to build again.”

                    Live Radio from 100.3

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                    • Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                      And if you block it you get neither. The link aint happening because Manchin and Sinema dont need it. (The fucking President can't persuade them let alone their constituents) The game is rigged and everyone seems to get it but The Progressives.

                      You can't beat people who are this openly vile and willing to take the heat for it: https://twitter.com/NoLieWithBTC/sta...32835531182080



                      The Progressives are playing chicken with people who have no problems getting into a car accident. It is the same game they tried against Trump...when people don't have shame or care what anyone thinks they will do whatever they want and laugh when people get angry. All that happens is you look foolish and end up in a worse position later to bargain.

                      You don't continue playing by the same rules when the game changes. You take what you can and then fuck them later.
                      Except Biden is with the Progressives on this. It's up to the Moderates to get in line, and support their president.

                      Why is it always "The Progressives" who are acting irresponsibly, or the ones who need to just shut up and take it? This entire process is being held up by two people, Sinema and Manchin, neither of whom are members of "The Progressives".
                      What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by rufus View Post

                        Except Biden is with the Progressives on this. It's up to the Moderates to get in line, and support their president.

                        Why is it always "The Progressives" who are acting irresponsibly, or the ones who need to just shut up and take it? This entire process is being held up by two people, Sinema and Manchin, neither of whom are members of "The Progressives".
                        Until the progressives can start winning enough elections to actually hold power, then this is what we're stuck with. French and Handy have explained pretty clearly what the options are:

                        You take something or you get nothing. Those are the options. The progs don't have the votes to do anything else. Hell, the Dems don't have the votes to do anything else.

                        Win a couple more senate seats and this isn't a problem.
                        Code:
                        As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                        College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                        BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                        Originally posted by SanTropez
                        May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                        Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                        I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                        Originally posted by Kepler
                        When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                        He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
                          Win a couple more senate seats and this isn't a problem.
                          This is the key here.

                          "Moderate" (read: conservative) Democrats are very much like white males (for the good reason that they primarily are). They simply don't see their entitlement. They have the unconscious certainty that "serious" or "popular" or "practical" opposition to the Fascists is them, and then the Others are nice to haves but just going to have to go along. This is exactly how white males have treated women and non-whites throughout history. It is no surprise that they sacrifice those Others first thing. It's how they will always think -- if they didn't, they would not be conservative Democrats.

                          But we on the Left need to understand that. We aren't going to war with the army we wish we had. We have to deal with things the way they are right now. We will always have to battle the DNC and the vested interests in the primaries and, barring a sudden upwards thrust in IQ, we will typically have an electoral disadvantage, for roughly the same reason that Democrats writ large will always have to deal with systemic biases in favor of conservatives.

                          So be it. For this cycle we can't use our leverage because we care about the consequences for vulnerable people far more than conservative Democrats do. Take my self-interest for example. I'll be okay, no matter what happens. In terms of my personal life there's no urgency. I'll be fine. So I could very well say "you come to me," and hold my breath, and only the poor and women and POC would be hurt. I just don't do that because of the worms in my head. But I could and since majorities will always choose their self-interest that means in any staring contest the right -- the side that doesn't give a crap -- always has the advantage.

                          If we get to 58 Democratic Senators we can at least tell Joe and Kristin to pound sand. We will still have to fight conservative Democrats, but at least we won't be fighting a guy like Manchin who voted for Kavanaugh and favored pulling out of the Paris Accord. The more folks we have the better for the Left and the better for people in general.

                          I'm not saying it doesn't suck. Entitlement is always insolent and infuriating. But, take the high road, again. It saves lives.
                          Cornell University
                          National Champion 1967, 1970
                          ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                          Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                          • Exactly. No one is saying progs shouldn't feel upset about it or that they should be happy about it. (No one worth listening to.)

                            Get angry and elect the leftmost candidate who can win in each race.

                            (Pro tip: manchin is as extreme an example as we can get. We should make sure he sits in that seat for as long as he wants it. Capito won by 40 points.)
                            Code:
                            As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                            College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                            BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                            Originally posted by SanTropez
                            May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                            Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                            I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                            Originally posted by Kepler
                            When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                            He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                              When I saw that on Twitter I literally fell out of my chair laughing!
                              "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                              -aparch

                              "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                              -INCH

                              Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                              -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by aparch View Post
                                Poor Jim Carey...
                                "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                                -aparch

                                "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                                -INCH

                                Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                                -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                                Comment

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