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117th Congress: DEMS IN DISARRAY!!!111!!

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  • Replacing Al Franken with Tina Smith was a problem? What world am I living in?

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    • As a woman in Minnesota, I’d replace Tina with al in a heartbeat

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      • I think I remember having this conversation on here a while back and being shocked then that Minnesotans preferred Al Franken come back versus Tina Smith or any other hundreds of progressive Democrats who don’t have a lengthy list of sexual harassment and assault charges against them. I can understand wanting him to receive an ethics committee hearing, but once that came back with at least one of those six women telling the truth, that would have changed the calculus then, right?

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        • Originally posted by psych View Post
          I think I remember having this conversation on here a while back and being shocked then that Minnesotans preferred Al Franken come back versus Tina Smith or any other hundreds of progressive Democrats who don’t have a lengthy list of sexual harassment and assault charges against them. I can understand wanting him to receive an ethics committee hearing, but once that came back with at least one of those six women telling the truth, that would have changed the calculus then, right?


          He got smeared by Fox News who wanted to cut him off before he became a true national leader, and then Gillibrand decided to railroad him because she thought it would boost her own presidential ambitions.

          And it all worked, given that you're far from the first to believe all of it.

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          • Al Franken was by far the most effective democrat in the senate
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            • Isn’t psych soemone who has gotten super defensive when someone here presumed they know more about how Kentucky people work or think?

              If not sorry, but if so…same principle here. And Tina isn’t progressive …she’s fine…she’s just…there.

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              • Originally posted by psych View Post
                a lengthy list of sexual harassment and assault charges against them
                Wow. Just wow. I used to think you honestly engaged.
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                • Wow. I remember the conversation now. I don’t remember people saying it was Fox News who ended Al Franken’s career. Gillibrand, yes, but not Franken. Are all six women who came out and said he did something to them Fox News contributors or something? I can’t say I ever read the Fox version of the story.
                  DGF, I’m from Minnesota. I voted for Franken in 2008. I would think regardless of party or state, allegations of sexual misconduct should be taken seriously. We all rightfully wanted Cuomo gone, especially after the investigation came back and reported he was likely guilty of the allegations leveled against him (NOT in a court of law, Hovey).
                  Dx, he was an incredibly effective Senator. Not arguing that point at all. One can be an effective, wonderful Senator who makes the country and world a better place, have been railroaded, as I agree he should have had his chance to clear his name in the Senate Ethics Committee investigation, and still have done some of the things he was accused of doing. Maybe one or two of those women had an agenda, but all six? Seems unlikely to only me, apparently. And to only me as well, it appears, it makes us look like hypocrites. If that suddenly labels me as someone not arguing in good faith, Kep, so be it.
                  Both Smith and Gillibrand are sufficiently progressive and both are on board with basically every major priority we want passed as a party.

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                  • I think the most serious charge was that he put his hand on a woman's butt at The Fair taking a picture or that he grabbed a boob once. Nothing has been proven just allegations. I think you are vastly overblowing the situation. Putting him in the same sentence as Cuomo is a fucking travesty.

                    That said if he primaries Tina Smith he can fuck off and die. He quit and chose not to run again she has done nothing worthy of losing her seat. If Klobuchar wants him to replace her cause she just had a cancer scare fine. But he made his choice and while he was railroaded he could have fought it and chose not to. Too late now.
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                    • Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                      I think the most serious charge was that he put his hand on a woman's butt at The Fair taking a picture or that he grabbed a boob once. Nothing has been proven just allegations. I think you are vastly overblowing the situation. Putting him in the same sentence as Cuomo is a fucking travesty.

                      That said if he primaries Tina Smith he can fuck off and die. He quit and chose not to run again she has done nothing worthy of losing her seat. If Klobuchar wants him to replace her cause she just had a cancer scare fine. But he made his choice and while he was railroaded he could have fought it and chose not to. Too late now.
                      I don't think it had anything to do with what people were saying, or not saying. What sunk him was the photo.

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                      That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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                      • Franken does not really have a path forward as a Senator because, as you point out, MN is locked up. Amy K. is not going to bow out, she is Ambition Personified.

                        Al has talents that are worth more than just another idiot hairdo in the Senate. He should use them to mobilize support, and to unify the Left of the Democratic party and the Right of the Democratic party. He can be a force for good in a way they can't.

                        TBH, another white male is not what we need as the electoral face of the party. Franken would be much more effective, for example, going head to head on radio against the Echo Chamber. Tom Hartman speaks to the Left. Stephanie Miller speaks to, I dunno, middle aged liberal women who also watch Real Housewives and have an incipient drinking problem? Al Franken is smart enough that he could entertain long haul truckers while giving them an alternative to Hate Radio.
                        Last edited by Kepler; 09-14-2021, 10:14 AM.
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                        • Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                          I think the most serious charge was that he put his hand on a woman's butt at The Fair taking a picture or that he grabbed a boob once. Nothing has been proven just allegations. I think you are vastly overblowing the situation. Putting him in the same sentence as Cuomo is a fucking travesty.

                          That said if he primaries Tina Smith he can fuck off and die. He quit and chose not to run again she has done nothing worthy of losing her seat. If Klobuchar wants him to replace her cause she just had a cancer scare fine. But he made his choice and while he was railroaded he could have fought it and chose not to. Too late now.
                          Yeah, I think my point wasn’t that what Franken did compared to Cuomo was worse, since at this point it clearly wasn’t, just that we all agreed Cuomo needed to go once the investigation was completed. And, I figured the same would have been said on here of Franken if the Senate investigation had been completed. It appears that isn’t the case, but shockingly, I have been wrong before. I think of all the accusers, Tweeden’s account is the least believable, depending on a lot of stories I’ve read on the subject, in publications like Slate, the New Yorker, and Mother Jones. The picture is unacceptable, but he wasn’t actually touching her breasts, which clears the low bar people like Cuomo and Trump have set. Now, I’ll admit I wanted Cuomo gone before the investigation was complete, but I recognize I’m on my own island when it comes immediately believing accusers of sexual assault. I don’t have to be held to the court of law standard,
                          or even that of a completed Senate Ethics Investigation to draw my conclusions. I also don’t think that means I arrived at my conclusions via “falling for Fox News”, which I’ve literally never watched. If their reporting influences the publications I read, we’re more fucked than I thought.
                          I think Gillibrand recognized she fucked up when it came to Franken, by asking for the Cuomo investigation to play out first, rather than immediately calling for his resignation. It was the prudent move, and it worked out.
                          I appreciate your last paragraph, and I agree. I also agree with Kep’s analysis of how Franken can continue being an effective power player for the Democratic Party. He’s an excellent politician.

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                          • It's pretty interesting how we have a complete double standard between Democrats and Republicans when it comes to sex scandals. Republicans? Fuck, get massaged, rape whoever you want. Democrats? Don't touch anybody.
                            **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

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                            • Originally posted by SJHovey View Post

                              I don't think it had anything to do with what people were saying, or not saying. What sunk him was the photo.

                              https://www.theatlantic.com/entertai...-women/545954/
                              The photo is literally all they have...and lest we forget she did way more sexual stuff to male celebrities on that tour than he did in that photo. (there is video of her out there much of it posted here at the time) She lied and took advantage of the #MeToo movement and Franken was honorable and stepped down because he was one of the voices defending women. Fuck her and fuck that photo which was staged anyways and he isn't even really touching her.

                              I may be off in my timing but I don't remember any of the accusations (certainly not that one or the one where he kissed a woman on the cheek) were from when he was in office. He was a radio host at the time. That doesn't make harassment better but he had no power over any of these people and none of them said "hey don't do that" at any point. (Tweeden was pulling the same crap...it was a comedic USO tour!) He is the perfect example of how many people have lost sight of the fact that context matters. What he did and what Cuomo did are not the same. What he did makes him kinda creepy (though pretty tame for a comedian) but hardly rates compared to most politicians. Was he wrong...if the accusations are true sure. Is he a monster because of it...no.

                              That said he could have done what Keith Ellison did and said "go ahead and look I will abide but what the Ethics Committee says" but he didn't trust the process and was facing pressure from losers like Gillibrand to resign. He chose the easy way which is why he has a podcast and Ellison helped put away Derek Chauvin.
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                              • Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                                It's pretty interesting how we have a complete double standard between Democrats and Republicans when it comes to sex scandals. Republicans? Fuck, get massaged, rape whoever you want. Democrats? Don't touch anybody.
                                And by interesting, you mean completely expected and baked into the pie already?
                                What sucks about it is that more women aren’t turned off faster to the horrible double standard. White women continue voting in droves for people like Trump, and not just Southern ones.

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