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117th Congress: DEMS IN DISARRAY!!!111!!

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  • Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    Nazi Rand Paul got his little feelings hurt by the Inauguration Speech yesterday.



    https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-...jdtclHIcMYMfug

    Poor little Nazi.
    I didn't think it was thinly veiled at all, Rand.

    Go ask your neighbor what he thinks.
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    • Originally posted by Kepler View Post

      As usual you're getting the logic backwards. The point is your tender feewies and iron age agenda are protected by the 50/50 split already. We won't get anything done that the most reactionary, backward, rural, brainless Dem Senator does not agree to. So you don't have to worry -- the Hyde Amendment will still murder people. You should be happy.

      What Mitch is doing is saying not Manchin but HE must agree to everything that passes. And that's just not how a minority works. He doesn't get to make that call. Mitch is holding the whole US hostage to the entitled, clueless, evil f-cktards who bribe him. That's why we have to nuke him and his terrorists.

      Y'all did this to yourselves. So, do what you do best: win back the Senate while losing the net vote by 10 million. If you ever get the House Mitch will end the filibuster in an instant.

      We know what you are. Even our Centrists know now.
      The Republicans controlled the House and the Senate just four years ago. I don't remember the filibuster getting nuked. You really need to back off on that early afternoon happy hour.

      Look, don't get angry at me. I wasn't the one convincing you that a 50/50 split in the Senate and a five or six vote majority in the House was going to give you carte blanche to pass whatever dream agenda seeped into your mind. You convinced yourself of that.

      You guys had something like 58-42 in the Senate and 250+ seats in the House when Obama took over and you weren't able to push anything more through than a crappy health insurance bill.

      Honestly, it was my intention to wait a few weeks before the inevitable bubble popping that I was going to have to do, just so everyone here could enjoy the well-earned win, but jeebus.
      That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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      • Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
        Look, don't get angry at me. I wasn't the one convincing you that a 50/50 split in the Senate and a five or six vote majority in the House was going to give you carte blanche to pass whatever dream agenda seeped into your mind. You convinced yourself of that.
        Nobody has ever thought that. It's your idee fixe.

        The thing that is happening here is the Republican party has no commitment to democratic governance. Your side has lost all credibility -- it supported an insurrection to topple a 240-year old democracy. So you can keep acting as though you are a good faith actor but we know you aren't.

        Your act doesn't work anymore, like Ted and Rand and Mitch's doesn't. Now I will grant I had my suspicions all along, but even the Buttigiegs and the Bidens get your rope-a-dope thing now. You're done. You no longer factor in discussions about a democratic nation.
        Last edited by Kepler; 01-21-2021, 04:17 PM.
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        • Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
          The Republicans controlled the House and the Senate just four years ago. I don't remember the filibuster getting nuked. You really need to back off on that early afternoon happy hour.

          Look, don't get angry at me. I wasn't the one convincing you that a 50/50 split in the Senate and a five or six vote majority in the House was going to give you carte blanche to pass whatever dream agenda seeped into your mind. You convinced yourself of that.

          You guys had something like 58-42 in the Senate and 250+ seats in the House when Obama took over and you weren't able to push anything more through than a crappy health insurance bill.

          Honestly, it was my intention to wait a few weeks before the inevitable bubble popping that I was going to have to do, just so everyone here could enjoy the well-earned win, but jeebus.
          Who the hell is saying Democrats had carte blanche? Maybe someone will volunteer they said that? Otherwise, what a poor strawman. You can do better. Keep trying.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Handyman View Post
            Problem being I don't think Schumer has the balls to do anything...
            It's not "balls." Schumer's issue has never been intestinal fortitude, it's about managing our caucus.

            And he still has plenty of restrictions. He can't just announce he's whipping every vote because the leverage is all on the side of the defector. Senators are politicians -- they use their power to maximize their gain. Some Senators will use that to literally maximize their personal gain. Those are easy; grift is easy and inexpensive. Mitch has personally stolen, what, a hundred mil during his career? That's nothing.

            Some use it to extend their term of office which means either pork or favors to slice up a primary challenger. That's one of the ways the Center holds off the Left in the Democratic party -- I will vote x if the DSCC backs me and blackballs my primary challenger. The GOP used to have this system run to perfection until the Tea Party and then Dump got outside it and all hell broke loose. It's why we need to bring back earmarks, in fact.

            Schumer is good at his job. He's not as good as Pelosi, but he's better than Reid. Even though he's bought and paid for by Wall Street he still has the ability to work behind the scenes with the Left on issues not touching Finance. The sniping is all part of the show, it means nothing.

            I can see Schumer doing a pretty good job herding the cats. It's not like anybody else is in a position to do better. I mean, who? Amy? Amy still wants to be President. The others are all a thousand years old.
            Last edited by Kepler; 01-21-2021, 04:27 PM.
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            • Yeah, I actually think Schumer is excellent at his job. I think keeping the minority unified is likely easier than a majority, especially against the great unifier known as Trump, but I think Schumer is up for it. I don’t see Manchin switching parties, so I think McConnell is just trolling Democrats, which, I’ll post* my shocked face later.

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              • Originally posted by psych View Post

                Who the hell is saying Democrats had carte blanche? Maybe someone will volunteer they said that? Otherwise, what a poor strawman. You can do better. Keep trying.
                It's a message board. What, I don't ever get to use hyperbole, but everyone else does?

                Biden, Pelosi and Schumer have not come out and said that the "big ticket" items the left is in love with are in the works and are going to be passed. In fact, Biden has probably done more to tamp down expectations than build them up.

                But, let's be clear. There have been a plethora of posts on this board over the past six months plus about "these are the things that have to be done" when Biden wins and if the D's take the Senate (which they did). Everything from Puerto Rico as a state to packing the court to the green new deal to killing the Electoral college to student loan forgiveness to medicare for all...... I'm not going to try to list them all because I'd only wake up in the middle of the night and remember 10 I didn't list.

                I knew, and know, that these things aren't going to come to pass, certainly not in the next couple of years, if who knows when. Biden will probably get some sort of Covid package, an infrastructure bill, and a few other items, but after that he is going to think he's Sisyphus, and wonder why he's being punished.
                That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by SJHovey View Post

                  It's a message board. What, I don't ever get to use hyperbole, but everyone else does?

                  Biden, Pelosi and Schumer have not come out and said that the "big ticket" items the left is in love with are in the works and are going to be passed. In fact, Biden has probably done more to tamp down expectations than build them up.

                  But, let's be clear. There have been a plethora of posts on this board over the past six months plus about "these are the things that have to be done" when Biden wins and if the D's take the Senate (which they did). Everything from Puerto Rico as a state to packing the court to the green new deal to killing the Electoral college to student loan forgiveness to medicare for all...... I'm not going to try to list them all because I'd only wake up in the middle of the night and remember 10 I didn't list.

                  I knew, and know, that these things aren't going to come to pass, certainly not in the next couple of years, if who knows when. Biden will probably get some sort of Covid package, an infrastructure bill, and a few other items, but after that he is going to think he's Sisyphus, and wonder why he's being punished.
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                  • Originally posted by SJHovey View Post

                    It's a message board. What, I don't ever get to use hyperbole, but everyone else does?

                    Biden, Pelosi and Schumer have not come out and said that the "big ticket" items the left is in love with are in the works and are going to be passed. In fact, Biden has probably done more to tamp down expectations than build them up.

                    But, let's be clear. There have been a plethora of posts on this board over the past six months plus about "these are the things that have to be done" when Biden wins and if the D's take the Senate (which they did). Everything from Puerto Rico as a state to packing the court to the green new deal to killing the Electoral college to student loan forgiveness to medicare for all...... I'm not going to try to list them all because I'd only wake up in the middle of the night and remember 10 I didn't list.

                    I knew, and know, that these things aren't going to come to pass, certainly not in the next couple of years, if who knows when. Biden will probably get some sort of Covid package, an infrastructure bill, and a few other items, but after that he is going to think he's Sisyphus, and wonder why he's being punished.
                    Only YOU knew the last paragraph, huh? Hmmm, I wonder if budget reconciliation, something that is also repeatedly discussed on here, covers some of those things you listed? Just because we state our liberal wishlists on a message board- hyperbole, some may say- doesn’t mean any of us expect them to happen in a 50/50, or even 53/47 D Senate. You’re not the only one who understands how the government works at a basic level, you arrogant a—hole. I’ll gladly take three Democratic budget reconciliation bills, with Joe Manchin’s input, over the 2017 Tax Bill-Helps-Hovey’s-Type. The ACA managed to withstand the same GOP trifecta, so it wasn’t that terrible, apparently.

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                    • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                      Cruz should stop tweeting. AOC destroys him every time. He leaves himself wide open with his inane shtick. It's easy to puncture these do-uches. They have to stick to Fox and radio where their allies control the conversation.

                      Conservatives can only win in the marketplace of ideas when they own it.
                      He'll give some inane reply, his fans will (erroneously) eat it up as him dunking on AOC, and we're right back where we started.
                      “Demolish the bridges behind you… then there is no choice but to build again.”

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                      • Super Awesome Wonderful Person Greatest Senator Susan Collins not sure if we need another stimulus.
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                        • I’m fine if we omit Maine from aid! All they need is her waves at the airport

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                          • She and Mittens.

                            WHY CAN'T THEY JUST BORROW FROM THEIR DADDIES???
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                            • Screw her...no one needs her to listen she is worthless. She can go listen to Trump tell her he learned his lessons.

                              As for Schumer, I will grant he is better than Reid but there has to be someone who can deal with the caucus better. He is too worried about making sure not to ruffle too many feathers. He stinks of the type of Democrat most of this country hates...feckless and not strong enough in his convictions to fight for what he truly believes in besides giving speeches. That isnt what the Dems need at this point in time they need someone that will walk into Manchin's office and throw down the gauntlet.

                              Mitch is evil, but beyond the Electoral College/Impeachment he demanded full loyalty to the agenda. If Pence was the swing vote Mitch would be acting like they have a filibuster proof majority...not hoping and praying his caucus agrees with him and trying to find ways to make things peaceful and equitable.

                              The problem with the Democratic Party is it is filled with Democrats. We were lucky to make it through what happened and they are already backing off their indignation. In a week they will agree to push the trial in favor of Biden's agenda, which Mitch will block, and then in February they will likely get nothing out of it including half of his cabinet not confirmed. If Schumer doesn't start acting like a Majority Leader and not some parliamentarian looking to make things run without fighting he is going to completely destroy everything we are fighting for. Now is not the time to let Mitch bully you and right now it just feels like that is where we are headed.

                              Pelosi would have burned the place to the ground if she was Senate Majority Leader. She doesn't care if people like her even in her own caucus which is why she wins. Schumer is my Jewish uncle who can talk til the cows come home about how great Progressive Ideas are but when challenged to fight for them hopes someone else stands up to be counted.

                              edit: I will admit, I have some PTSD from watching Dems over the years. Hopefully I am wrong. I just never trust them to do the hard work when their feet is to the fire.
                              Last edited by Handyman; 01-21-2021, 05:55 PM.
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                              • Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                                I will admit, I have some PTSD from watching Dems over the years. Hopefully I am wrong. I just never trust them to do the hard work when their feet is to the fire.
                                Me, too, brother. I've had 40 years watching these guys get rolled by the boorish, demented, criminal imbeciles on the Right whose only virtue was lock step loyalty.

                                But it is getting better. The Dem Centrists seem to have finally figured out that demonizing the Left as an applause line with the boobs back in your district gets us nothing but a slide down the razorblade of the Right. We shed all the racists (who the Republicans eagerly slurped up). Bill Clinton would be a shunned backbench reactionary predator in this party.

                                I know it has been infuriating since most of our trouble has been self-inflicted by the repeated treachery of turning our back on our own ideals and compromising with turds rather than having courage, but frankly things are so bad in this Dystopian Plutocratic Hellscape now that most people won't allow triangulation. People are angry because the DNC betrayed them for 40 years, and those people grew up and started taking the party over.

                                Biden couldn't go back to the good old boy game of Tip and Ronnie even if he wanted to, and even he seems to have learned after 8 years of watching a great and good man get raped by the Right that they are not to be trusted ever again.
                                Last edited by Kepler; 01-21-2021, 08:29 PM.
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