World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

[First Time, Long Time]

That’s an argument that they have different responsibilities and working conditions. A pretty good one for an equal pay suit. And one that is true.

There’s no way the USSF comes out of this without looking sexist anyway. They tried to settle and the Women refused, the USSF had to defend itself. Here we are.

Complete and total BS.

[Jimjamesak]

Complete and total BS.

It’s a perfectly valid legal argument with precedence:

Let me try to provide legal perspective on why USSF is arguing that the WNT and MNT players, in the words of the USSF brief in support of its motion, "Do Not Perform Equal Work on Jobs Requiring Equal Skill, Effort, and Responsibility Under Similar Working Conditions." https://t.co/2T4xQGzTfN

— Steven Bank (@ProfBank) February 21, 2020

[Jimjamesak]

Did they, though?

Yes.

U.S. Soccer has offered a proposal for equal pay for our women and men players in all matches controlled by U.S. Soccer.

We look forward to discussing our proposal with the WNT and to resolving this in the best interest of everyone involved. pic.twitter.com/c3xZ3AtnT7

— Carlos Cordeiro (@CACSoccer) March 7, 2020

[First Time, Long Time]

It’s a perfectly valid legal argument with precedence:

Let me try to provide legal perspective on why USSF is arguing that the WNT and MNT players, in the words of the USSF brief in support of its motion, "Do Not Perform Equal Work on Jobs Requiring Equal Skill, Effort, and Responsibility Under Similar Working Conditions." https://t.co/2T4xQGzTfN

— Steven Bank (@ProfBank) February 21, 2020

It may have had legal precedence in the past
..to make that argument today is ridiculous.
To also make the argument that

USSF said the women claimed their ability level is the same as the men “by ignoring the materially higher level of speed and strength required to perform the job of an MNT player.”

“A reasonable juror could conclude that the job of MNT player requires materially different skill and more responsibility than plaintiffs’ job does, while also taking place under materially different working conditions,” USSF lawyers wrote. “The job of MNT player (competing against senior men’s national teams) requires a higher level of skill based on speed and strength than does the job of WNT player (competing against senior women’s national teams).”

Is extremely sexist and if that's how the USSF feels it needs to defend itself...i hope they get taken to the cleaners.
It should be a cash grab for the women...maybe then it can actually move towards real equal pay.

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

It may have had legal precedence in the past
..to make that argument today is ridiculous.
To also make the argument that


Is extremely sexist and if that's how the USSF feels it needs to defend itself...i hope they get taken to the cleaners.
It should be a cash grab for the women...maybe then it can actually move towards real equal pay.

Yeah...it’s such a bad argument. I get wanting to present about working requirements and conditions in an equal pay case...but this was done terribly and I also hope they get cleaned out for their absolute stupidity and sexism.

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

There is little doubt though that World Cup bonuses are not USSF's fault. Should USSF be pushing for equal distribution from FIFA? of course they should, but they shouldn't be paying out equal bonuses if they're not getting equal or near equal payments from FIFA should they?

[Jimjamesak]

It may have had legal precedence in the past
..to make that argument today is ridiculous.
To also make the argument that


Is extremely sexist and if that's how the USSF feels it needs to defend itself...i hope they get taken to the cleaners.
It should be a cash grab for the women...maybe then it can actually move towards real equal pay.

Ok, I agree the “strength and speed” argument is wrong and was obviously a dumb misstep by the lawyers. Obviously the USSF agreed and that’s why they’re changing to a different law firm and the President resigned. But you can’t deny the truth that Men’s soccer and Women’s soccer operate in fundamentally different worlds, the qualifying structures are different, the game environments are different, and none these factors are the fault of the USSF. So why is it the USSF’s responsibility to financially treat them as the exact same? Why is it the responsibility of the USSF to fund a $20 million plus (and growing) differential every 4 years?

And remember, the USSF isn’t responsible for only NT pay. It’s responsible for youth programs, amateur programs, referees, coaches, Paralympic, Beach, Futsal, the governance of the Professional leagues (guess where most of the NWSL funding has come from?) etc. That $50 million has to come from somewhere and that somewhere is gonna be from parents, players, coaches, referees, and spectators. It’s also going to come at the expense of future players for the WNT. It’s a selfish cash grab at the expense of an entity who can’t afford it.

[Jimjamesak]

Re: World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

Also, what is “real equal pay”? What is it’s actual definition? It’s something that’s always mentioned but never defined despite numerous offers of equal pay.

[Kepler]

Re: World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

Also, what is “real equal pay”? What is it’s actual definition? It’s something that’s always mentioned but never defined despite numerous offers of equal pay.

Please stop. I assume you aren't but you sound like one of those Limbaugh jackholes who tries to defend paying women doctors and lawyers less than men.

This will not end well for you.

[Jimjamesak]

Please stop. I assume you aren't but you sound like one of those Limbaugh jackholes who tries to defend paying women doctors and lawyers less than men.

This will not end well for you.

And you make comparisons to situations that are not at all similar. Do some research Kep, you’re smarter than this.

The USSF offered literal, actual, equal pay from all revenues they control and the WNT players refused it and said it was “not equal pay”. So if literal, actual equal pay is not “equal pay” the what the f- is?!?

[J.D.]

Re: World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

That is a perfectly legitimate post

[Kepler]

Re: World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

And you make comparisons to situations that are not at all similar. Do some research Kep, you’re smarter than this.

Oh, I'm not saying you're wrong. I have no idea and it really depends on what your standards and rules are. There are some things it doesn't really matter if you're right -- you still give up. This is one of the Great Wisdoms and the only way to stay married.

The inefficiency of paying woman the same as men even if they warrant it less by some measure is overwhelmed by the social harm of paying women less for a job which appears to be identical.

It's like preferring one of your kids. For all I know the f-cker deserves it. But don't. What you lose on the back end is way bigger than whatever point you're making on the front end.

Shakespeare:

The quality of mercy is not strain’d,
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath: it is twice blest;
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes

Shorter Shakespeare:

Don't be that guy.

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: World Soccer XXX: We Have Men Too!

And you make comparisons to situations that are not at all similar. Do some research Kep, you’re smarter than this.

The USSF offered literal, actual, equal pay from all revenues they control and the WNT players refused it and said it was “not equal pay”. So if literal, actual equal pay is not “equal pay” the what the f- is?!?

One question, how can there be "multiple contract options, which we strongly believe address the team's goals as they have been presented to us by the players and their representatives. In particular, we have offered to provide identical compensation to our women's and men's players for all matches controlled by U.S. Soccer."

[Jimjamesak]

Oh, I'm not saying you're wrong. I have no idea and it really depends on what your standards and rules are. There are some things it doesn't really matter if you're right -- you still give up. This is one of the Great Wisdoms and the only way to stay married.

The inefficiency of paying woman the same as men even if they warrant it less by some measure is overwhelmed by the social harm of paying women less for a job which appears to be identical.

It's like preferring one of your kids. For all I know the f-cker deserves it. But don't. What you lose on the back end is way bigger than whatever point you're making on the front end.

Shakespeare:



Shorter Shakespeare:

I absolutely agree there should be equal pay. But stop asking the USSF, and people like myself who referee or coach or play, to pay for it. If you want the World Cup bonuses to be equal than go after FIFA.

[First Time, Long Time]

I absolutely agree there should be equal pay. But stop asking the USSF, and people like myself who referee or coach or play, to pay for it. If you want the World Cup bonuses to be equal than go after FIFA.

They likely would if they thought that could be won.
Would the USSF support them in that endeavor? After their recent legal arguments I would think not.
So may as well go after a Federation you can beat.