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  • Originally posted by Kepler View Post

    Does Musk's worth depend on consumers anymore? I thought he was wired into that sweet, sweet federal contract stream. Once you're in it's very hard to get kicked out again. You just keep hiring guys with a fed Rolodex who keep the contracts landing. And the barrier to entry protects you.
    Just part of it. As far as I know, he does make money selling cars, and he does make money selling space internet service. That above the federal contracts. Tesla's stock is $756B, SpaceX is $150B, X $41B. So most of his personal wealth is in Tesla stock.

    And government contracts an areas that is not permanent. If the rocket start ups get enough traction, or even NASA's subcontractors get going- those contracts are under huge threat. So since Starship is so integrated into that part, I really see a possible crack in the egg shell.

    edit- I can't read this article https://fortune.com/2023/10/31/elon-...sla-twitter-x/ but the google search suggest that his net worth is down 40% thanks to X and Tesla stocks going down. Granted it's 40% of a massive amount of money. But 40% is a lot.
    Last edited by MichVandal; 11-21-2023, 04:39 PM.

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    • Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post

      Not necessarily. He's taken on a significant amount of loans against that stock. Not just with the twitter deal. The problem is if it gets bad enough it starts to snowball very, very quickly.
      Right but you are assuming that he only has investments in his own companies...which he doesn't. He was born on 3rd base and I highly doubt he is cash poor at this point. You and Vandal are dreaming if you think he is ever going broke.
      "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
      -aparch

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      • Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post

        Yes, it hasn't been been a year. Sam Bankman Fried.
        That is an awful example...he was not a billionaire it was all fraud. His numbers were inflated by crypto that he faked the value of while allowing his other company to steal from his investors. He was no more a billionaire than Bernie Madoff was. They were paper tigers...

        Musk is not the same animal.
        "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
        -aparch

        "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
        -INCH

        Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
        -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

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        • Originally posted by MichVandal View Post

          I get your point, but if elon starts selling off that much to maintain a massive fortune, his stock would take a massive loss. Which is part of the snowball thing.

          I know it's unlikely- but who knows how they really deal with this.

          All I know is X is absolutely bleeding money, and the more he says anything, the worse it gets. SpaceX has chosen the most expensive way to go to the moon, let alone Mars, and their "break the system" model isn't actually novel- so that's costing massive money. And Tesla really does make POS vehicles. They claim to be profitable, but the quality is so bad, it won't translate well to normal people. The system makes money via an ISS monopoly, heavy lift satellite monopoly, and the space web. And the latter is really under threat by many other rocket start ups. Some that do it cheaper than they do.

          His one way of getting out of it is to buy every single start up. But that won't work with NASA and their subcontractors.

          One other point, Tesla is worth massive amount more than GM, Ford, and Stellantis. I would not be shocked if all combined, even. But the latter own so very many plants all over the world that their properties are probably worth more than their stock is. Tesla is more a paper company than the other makers.

          It may be unlikely. Very unlikely. But still possible.

          Remember, what he sells, many of the nazis that support him do not buy. So the more he talks, the more he undermines his market appeal.
          If he sells off to maintain his fortune, he may take a loss but he will still be liquid. And he can then write off the loss just like Trump and others do.

          Must is worth a quarter of a trillion dollars...as long as he is diversified he will be just fine.
          "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
          -aparch

          "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
          -INCH

          Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
          -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

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          • Originally posted by MichVandal View Post

            Just part of it. As far as I know, he does make money selling cars, and he does make money selling space internet service. That above the federal contracts. Tesla's stock is $756B, SpaceX is $150B, X $41B. So most of his personal wealth is in Tesla stock.

            And government contracts an areas that is not permanent. If the rocket start ups get enough traction, or even NASA's subcontractors get going- those contracts are under huge threat. So since Starship is so integrated into that part, I really see a possible crack in the egg shell.

            edit- I can't read this article https://fortune.com/2023/10/31/elon-...sla-twitter-x/ but the google search suggest that his net worth is down 40% thanks to X and Tesla stocks going down. Granted it's 40% of a massive amount of money. But 40% is a lot.
            Yes it took an epically bad year and a half and he dropped quite a bit of cash on paper. And after the fact he was still worth nearly $200 billion.

            Look, no one thinks Musk is a bigger idiot than me, but he will be a billionaire 10 years from now. Unless he is killed by the Saudis for tanking Twitter...which is an enjoyable thought.
            "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
            -aparch

            "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
            -INCH

            Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
            -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

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            • Originally posted by Handyman View Post
              Unless he is killed by the Saudis for tanking Twitter...which is an enjoyable thought.
              Did they put up the money? Saudi Sovereign Wealth Fund?
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              • Originally posted by Handyman View Post

                That is an awful example...he was not a billionaire it was all fraud. His numbers were inflated by crypto that he faked the value of while allowing his other company to steal from his investors. He was no more a billionaire than Bernie Madoff was. They were paper tigers...

                Musk is not the same animal.
                See also Holmes, Elizabeth.
                If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

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                • Originally posted by Handyman View Post

                  Yes it took an epically bad year and a half and he dropped quite a bit of cash on paper. And after the fact he was still worth nearly $200 billion.

                  Look, no one thinks Musk is a bigger idiot than me, but he will be a billionaire 10 years from now. Unless he is killed by the Saudis for tanking Twitter...which is an enjoyable thought.
                  If he has to sell off, he’ll not run the companies anymore, right? Which is more important that making him poor.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Handyman View Post

                    That is an awful example...he was not a billionaire it was all fraud. His numbers were inflated by crypto that he faked the value of while allowing his other company to steal from his investors. He was no more a billionaire than Bernie Madoff was. They were paper tigers...

                    Musk is not the same animal.
                    But enough about all billionaires.
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                    When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
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                    • Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post

                      But enough about all billionaires.
                      Rockefeller was a true billionaire. He was worth 2% of the US GNP. Today that would be 4 trillion dollars.
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                      • Originally posted by Kepler View Post

                        Rockefeller was a true billionaire. He was worth 2% of the US GNP. Today that would be 4 trillion dollars.
                        Right, like, there are rich people who have wealth. Honest to god wealth. They own like.. Montana or something. Then there are most wealthy people whose money is tied up in stock.
                        Code:
                        As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                        College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                        BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                        Originally posted by SanTropez
                        May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                        Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                        I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                        Originally posted by Kepler
                        When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                        He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

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                        • Originally posted by Kepler View Post

                          Rockefeller was a true billionaire. He was worth 2% of the US GNP. Today that would be 4 trillion dollars.
                          Uhhhh. GNP is around 27T, so 2% = 540B.

                          Still way more than Musk, and he for sure owned more than just an inflated brand. Even the stocks he owned were in companies that produced real goods and had sensible P/E ratios.
                          If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

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                          • Rockefeller & Carnegie are still the wealthiest people to ever live and it's not close. They literally had entire industries in their pockets.

                            They are also the one of the key reasons people realized that there needs to be an upper limit to wealth.
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                            • Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
                              GNP is around 27T, so 2% = 540B.
                              Yes. I suck.
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                              • Originally posted by RaceBoarder View Post
                                Rockefeller & Carnegie are still the wealthiest people to ever live and it's not close. They literally had entire industries in their pockets.
                                At least Carnegie threw money at libraries (as long as the town was willing to support them).
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