Space exploration: Where do we go from here?

[MichVandal]

Did SpaceX not have any success prior to this launch? This flight was intentionally unmanned for a reason and there were crashes during Mercury/Gemini/Apollo.

I'm not a Musk guy AT ALL, but I guess I'm not understanding what seems like histrionics in reaction to this?

Apollo had one truly bad mission, and then one failure. No explosions during a launch.

The histrionics is about the total lack of acceptance of this being a failure.

[Kepler]

They did have Godard's work and Tsiolkovsky's theory, but yes we have sixty more years of work now.

[Slap Shot]

Apollo had one truly bad mission, and then one failure. No explosions during a launch.

The histrionics is about the total lack of acceptance of this being a failure.

I sincerely doubt that internally they don't see it as a failure and I don't feel the need to freak out over their subterfuge.

Also this program isn't at the Apollo stage so again...

dx - it was unmanned. Again SpaceX has a history prior to this launch and I believe a wait and see response isn't unwarranted.

[MichVandal]

I sincerely doubt that internally they don't see it as a failure and I don't feel the need to freak out over their subterfuge.

Also this program isn't at the Apollo stage so again...

dx - it was unmanned. Again SpaceX has a history prior to this launch and I believe a wait and see response isn't unwarranted.

Why is it so hard to say that in public? The musk worshipers are the first to throw stones at all other programs, but they can’t seem to accept that they fail, too. Rather frustrating.

if they are not at the Apollo stage, then they are not ready for live launches like this- in the end, the cost of these failures will be passed to all of us, since they get so much money to launch stuff into space.

[dxmnkd316]

I sincerely doubt that internally they don't see it as a failure and I don't feel the need to freak out over their subterfuge.

Also this program isn't at the Apollo stage so again...

dx - it was unmanned. Again SpaceX has a history prior to this launch and I believe a wait and see response isn't unwarranted.

I'll bet once they survey the damage at the launchpad and the FAA and EPA start gathering data and feedback, I think the feelings of joy and success will go pretty much like Starship's first flight.

A wait and see response would be warranted against someone who is operating in good faith. I don't see that from Elon Musk. I think he deserves no such benefit of the doubt. ANd i'm not even sure what we're waiting to see. We're seeing plenty right now and it's not good! If you can wade through the fanbois on Twitter, it's pretty obvious there were some fairly significant, predictable, and embarrassing failures.

The worst part from an engineering perspective is, they have no idea how much of the data they can trust in terms of reliability because King Sh_thead decided to forego the deluge and flame deflectors because it wasn't edgy enough. How many of those engines failed because of a chunk of concrete hit them? How many failed because of other causes? Was the telemetry system impacted? Were they able to recover any data on the engines? How much? How did the engines perform in-air working together? How many of the tiles failed becuse of concrete impacts? My god, what a waste of money (including taxpayer money)!

Most of what they learned was about the very specific failure mode of "WHat happens if detonate the launchpad?"

If Musk hadn't forfeited all the good will he'd built up over the years, we might be having a different discussion.

[dxmnkd316]

in the end, the cost of these failures will be passed to all of us, since they get so much money to launch stuff into space.

Bingo.

[dxmnkd316]

Oh, and for the record, I think it's 50:50 that Musk still refuses to go with a deluge and trench system. A responsible program would use this as a moment to stop, push back future launches, and assess how that decision was made. They'd fix the launch site and the management system that made the decision in the first place.


Edit: One more thing. This right here I think is why I'm so upset about this. Because as an engineer, nothing is ****ing worse than a predictable catastrophic failure.

https://twitter.com/golikehellmachi/...680632832?s=20

i am not a space exploration hater, but i do look at the privatization of it with a jaundiced eye, and predictable failures should be criticized very heavily, not glossed over just because space is cool.

[ScoobyDoo]

Oh, and for the record, I think it's 50:50 that Musk still refuses to go with a deluge and trench system. A responsible program would use this as a moment to stop, push back future launches, and assess how that decision was made. They'd fix the launch site and the management system that made the decision in the first place.


Edit: One more thing. This right here I think is why I'm so upset about this. Because as an engineer, nothing is ****ing worse than a predictable catastrophic failure.

https://twitter.com/golikehellmachi/...680632832?s=20

Good find.

I also pull this quote from that twitter user.

the pitch for privatization is always "private enterprise can do [x] faster/better/cheaper than government" and then those private enterprises cut important corners to do it, no one needs to defend the corner cutting, that wasn't the ****ing deal.

I see this across industry in my job. All over the place.

[ScoobyDoo]

Killing Turtles is always a good idea too.

"space x destroyed their launchpad in a way they themselves predicted would happen and then the rocket blew up mid-flight, raining debris on a unique sea turtle breeding zone" is apparently a success, because someone will ostensibly learn something from it.

[MichVandal]

It’s interesting that the only goal was to clear the tower to be a success, and even that was likely a failures due to the damage.

and they claim to save a lot of salaries doing it quickly. Yea, underpay staff to make progress. Good idea.

[ScoobyDoo]

It’s interesting that the only goal was to clear the tower to be a success, and even that was likely a failures due to the damage.

and they claim to save a lot of salaries doing it quickly. Yea, underpay staff to make progress. Good idea.

We're supposed to be better than this.

[Kepler]

We're supposed to be better than this.

Are we, though?

This is Latter Stage Capitalism. Latter Stage anything is usually pretty slapdash. Latter Stage Communism was Chernobyl.

[aparch]

The (loud!) audible cheering from the SpaceX team when the rocket exploded made me sick.

[Kepler]

The (loud!) audible cheering from the SpaceX team when the rocket exploded made me sick.

That really did feel like Dump/CPAC-level cult behavior.

[Kepler]

Maybe one of our engineers/physicists can address this. When Super Heavy was nuking the launch pad back to the stone age, if felt like the length of time it took to clear the tower was itself a problem. But was it? Or is that simply expected given the thrust required to lift something that heavy off the pad?