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  • Originally posted by Handyman View Post
    There is a .000001% chance you would say that if you didn't go to SUNY-Ithaca ;^)
    The Ivies are about 75-25 merit selection. The other 25 percent are recruited athletes, legacies, and kids whose parents bought their way in.

    That's 25 percent too many, but Kepler is right that the difference between a top 25 school and a top 100 school isn't at the top of the class, but at the median level of student. And that goes double for graduate schools.

    The Ivies aren't the end all be all, but if the choice is a Harvard grad versus a Phoenix University grad, yes the Harvard grad is gonna start with a leg up. But anyone with half a brain should be able to tell within 5 minutes if they got there on merit or for $$$ reasons.
    Last edited by unofan; 01-08-2021, 07:55 AM.

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    • Originally posted by Jimjamesak View Post
      Even Trump went to a f-ing Ivy.
      Penn barely counts.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by unofan View Post

        The Ivies are about 75-25 merit selection. The other 25 percent are recruited athletes, legacies, and kids whose parents bought their way in.

        That's 25 percent too many, but Kepler is right that the difference between a top 25 school and a top 100 school isn't at the top of the class, but at the median level of student. And that goes double for graduate schools.

        The Ivies aren't the end all be all, but if the choice is a Harvard grad versus a Phoenix University grad, yes the Harvard grad is gonna start with a leg up. But anyone with half a brain should be able to tell within 5 minutes if they got there on merit or for $$$ reasons.
        I am not disputing any of that. All I am saying is if Kepler went to a non-Ivy he would be writing 12 paragraph soliloquies about how they are overrated and how there is no difference between someone who went to a major university and an Ivy.

        Basically I am calling him a fraud. But he went to Cornell so that is implied ;^) Sometimes when he posts I just have Andy Bernard in my head!

        "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
        -aparch

        "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
        -INCH

        Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
        -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Handyman View Post

          I am not disputing any of that. All I am saying is if Kepler went to a non-Ivy he would be writing 12 paragraph soliloquies about how they are overrated and how there is no difference between someone who went to a major university and an Ivy.
          And if you had had better SATs you would be arguing that admission requirements matter.

          For any given person there is no difference between someone who went to a major university and an Ivy. The smartest kid in the world may live on the West Coast in which case why go to an Ivy when you have Stanford and Cal? Or they may be technically-minded in which case why go to an Ivy when you have CalTech and MIT? Or they may be artistic in which case why go to an Ivy when you have Williams and Swarthmore? Or they may have sh-tty rightwing parents and wind up at Liberty or sh-tty leftwing parents and wind up at Reed.

          Or they may just prefer to go to State U.

          So any given person may be anywhere.

          The statistical distribution of those kids in larger sample sizes still favors the Ivies (plus another half dozen great schools from Chicago to UCLA) for reasons that range from good (insane amounts of resources, great financial aid packages) to mundane (professional networking) to awful (designer label, idiot bragging rights). And indeed as a poster said at least 25% of the students I met as an undergrad were there for the wrong reasons because they were sent there by empty-headed rich parents for a credential. They were still "smart" -- but it was the wily cleverness of snotty prep school kids; the Harry Lime type who always managed to leave the room just before the cops broke up the poker game. The Ted Cruz / Dubya kind of punchable face who was there to get a credential so he could use it to shiv somebody else. But that still left 75% who were great.

          This whole anti-Ivy farmboy tub thumping routine is just another arm of our American anti-intellectual tradition. It's how we wind up with "I want a business man in office, not some pointy head" combined with rube resentment about "Eastern Bias." It's as parochial as the guys we saw rushing the Capitol Building. "I'll show them I'm as good as they are!"

          Jesus f-ck, people. Nobody said you weren't. Nobody thinks about you one way or the other. Grow up.

          Last edited by Kepler; 01-08-2021, 12:18 PM.
          Cornell University
          National Champion 1967, 1970
          ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
          Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

          Comment


          • Originally posted by unofan View Post

            Penn barely counts.
            Penn counts but the "Penn" Dump "attended" is a degree mill like the Kennedy School at Harvard. It's a joke annex of Wharton, which is a business school, and business school is a joke in itself (except MIT -- those guys are actually the real thing, even if they are wasting their lives).
            Cornell University
            National Champion 1967, 1970
            ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
            Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

            Comment


            • The son of a former business partner of mine is the only person I've ever met who went to Cornell. Extremely bright kid. Was very successful at Cornell. Met his future wife there. He got a great job at a Fortune 500 company right out of school.

              Currently he lives in Switzerland. His wife is a major player for an international company. He stays home and skis with the kids. Hasn't held a job for maybe 10 years.

              I'm going to be honest. My observations of what happened to him have improved my view of Cornell and the Ivies over the years.
              That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by unofan View Post
                And that goes double for graduate schools.
                Well, the name of the school is meaningless for grad school. It's all about the department, and the best department could be anywhere. The best philosophy departments in the United States over the last thirty years included the University of Arizona and Rutgers. For reals. Because there were a handful of people there doing the best work in the world in their field.

                That doesn't mean all grad schools are the same. It just means you can't judge a grad department by the name of the school it happens to be affiliated with. It is as if it was completely accidental.
                Cornell University
                National Champion 1967, 1970
                ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

                Comment


                • Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                  The son of a former business partner of mine is the only person I've ever met who went to Cornell. Extremely bright kid. Was very successful at Cornell. Met his future wife there. He got a great job at a Fortune 500 company right out of school.

                  Currently he lives in Switzerland. His wife is a major player for an international company. He stays home and skis with the kids. Hasn't held a job for maybe 10 years.

                  I'm going to be honest. My observations of what happened to him have improved my view of Cornell and the Ivies over the years.
                  That guy has my life. To whom do I complain?

                  Actually, it depends. Is she a redhead?
                  Cornell University
                  National Champion 1967, 1970
                  ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                  Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Kepler View Post



                    Jesus f-ck, people. Nobody said you weren't. Nobody thinks about you one way or the other. Grow up.
                    Touch a nerve Nard Dog? It was a joke ;^)

                    I went to a Land Grant University, a private grad school, teach at a Community College and my GF went to a State School. (cause she got it for free) I don't give a crap where anyone went I make fun of them all. I know someone who went to a top flight school for mathematics and is literally one of the dumbest people I have ever met. (good at math though!) I know people who went to laughably mediocre schools that could educate all of us on a variety of topics. (I still mock them though!) Hell the only person I dont mock for his education is my friend who dropped out. Smartest man I know!

                    To me it is the person, not the school. I chose what school I was going to long before I ever thought about the requirements. I never would have considered going to an Ivy even if I had the grades. Probably never would have applied. Those places are way too high pressure for a student like me. I am honestly awed by the people who can handle it. (see also: Stanford and schools like U of Chicago) Just not me. My school and grad school were perfect for me.

                    Put it this way Nard Dog...I am making fun of you cause I consider you a friend. Plus...who doesnt love mocking people who constantly remind you how great they are cause they went to an Ivy?! It is why the Andy Bernard character is perfect, he is every Ivy League student! If we cant mock each other whats the point?



                    "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                    -aparch

                    "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                    -INCH

                    Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                    -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                      I went to a Land Grant University
                      So did I.

                      The university was founded at a time when higher education was predominately sought by the entitled classes. Most universities educated only the most privileged, and taught exclusively elite subjects (today’s liberal arts offerings–think classics, literature, etc.). There just was no notion that education should be for all, nor that colleges should work towards the betterment of everyone in society. However, through the Morrill Act in the 1860’s, Cornell’s unique curriculum–which included “agriculture and mechanic arts [now engineering]” –was formulated to improve the lives of citizens by addressing the educational needs of those in New York State (which was, and still is, very agriculturally based).
                      We're the good guys. We're the only Ivy whose motto is in English. That's the nerve you hit.
                      Cornell University
                      National Champion 1967, 1970
                      ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                      Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Kepler View Post

                        Well, the name of the school is meaningless for grad school. It's all about the department, and the best department could be anywhere. The best philosophy departments in the United States over the last thirty years included the University of Arizona and Rutgers. For reals. Because there were a handful of people there doing the best work in the world in their field.

                        That doesn't mean all grad schools are the same. It just means you can't judge a grad department by the name of the school it happens to be affiliated with. It is as if it was completely accidental.
                        I think this can be true for some, albeit more niche, undergrad degrees/departments too. There might be 50 schools across the nation that have some niche degree but it probably isn't uncommon for some smaller no name school to be considered the best for it vs some larger more "prestigious" school. The area that comes to mind for me as I am in that field would be Fisheries. Quite a few larger schools still offer some specialization in that field but often its such a small part of a larger department that its not really special. Or they come out with a basic "BS Biology" and maybe did a thesis project on it. Some smaller schools however have far more resources put into it than others and it shows. Had a guy at my company for a while that had his degree in "Natural Resources" and took maybe 1 fish related class and raised some stuff in little aquaria at his house. He was convinced he knew everything because he went to a bigger state school. Meanwhile he learned pretty quick that they didnt offer nearly the education that others did and that at my much smaller schools for my undergrad and grad I got way more rigorous training and experience and was miles ahead of him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Proud2baLaker View Post

                          I think this can be true for some, albeit more niche, undergrad degrees/departments too. There might be 50 schools across the nation that have some niche degree but it probably isn't uncommon for some smaller no name school to be considered the best for it vs some larger more "prestigious" school. The area that comes to mind for me as I am in that field would be Fisheries.
                          That's true. If your "major" is alpine skiing you probably want to go to Denver or Utah.
                          Cornell University
                          National Champion 1967, 1970
                          ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                          Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

                          Comment


                          • These are fun.
                            Cornell University
                            National Champion 1967, 1970
                            ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                            Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                              These are fun.
                              The cannabis and fermentation degrees are becoming more popular actually. Both of my alma maters now offer cannabis science degrees and I think one now has fermentation sciences.

                              Comment


                              • To get this thread back on track....

                                No comment on Mayah Mahty Walsh for Secretary of Labor??

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