Grand Unified Election Thread 2: What is the difference between Biden and Dump?

[Handyman]

I’m only looking at it on the micro scale, not the macro scale like you guys. What would’ve happened after they seized the Capitol and took out Pelosi and Pence is immaterial to me and my argument. What I’m speaking about is these people were steps away from breaking into the actual chambers and taking Congresspersons hostage. That takes some smarts to even get that close as they did, and that’s f-ing scary. They shouldn’t have even gotten that close. Everyone wants to paint this as a dumb mob that got lucky, it wasn’t. This was a planned attack that would’ve ended with this country in a civil war at best but didn’t because we got lucky.

tl;dr: The country almost descended into chaos. It took some smarts to even get to the brink of that. The sooner we realize that, the sooner we can effectively clean this mess up.

Oh I agree with all of this. I am just saying there is no endgame here. What they wanted could not happen which is why ultimately it was doomed to fail. In the near term though it would have lead to all sort of chaos and mass amounts of death and destruction but when the smoke clears Trump is no closer to staying in office than he is right now.

That is where the disconnect seems to lie. Those of us with a functioning brain see all of this and go "even if you win you still lose so what is the point?". At best they hold the capitol hostage for a day, and whatever Kangaroo Court version of the Electoral College vote they try to perform will be ignored as they die/get arrested. So Biden still wins and Trump probably gets arrested for incitement if he doesn't flee or make a national address to stop it. (which he wouldnt) To us it makes zero sense. To them though they dont see it that way. They arent playing chess they are playing checkers. They are the sucker at the poker table who gets too excited when they win a few hands and start overbetting and acting aggressive. All you need to do is wait...there is no logic or game theory.

My dad asked as we watched the riots "what is the point...what are they trying to accomplish?" and when I answered he couldnt understand because he is applying truth and logic to people who are duped by lies and acting contrary to all logic. Like people who say stuff like "peace through violence" or "authoritarianism is fine in the name of democracy" there is no thinking involved...it is basic gut instinct and nothing more.

The smart ones took advantage of all that to do what they really wanted to do. Those are the ones seen planning on videos. The majority though? They couldnt plan a bake sale let alone a coup.

[rufus]

how did it almost work? it was a dumb plan. Even if the hung Mike Pence, or kidnapped Pelosi, it wouldn't make Trump dictator for life. The only way this coup would have worked is if the Pentagon was on board, and everyone down the line followed orders. You think everyone's going to sit around while they make congress throw out electoral votes at gunpoint, and then just shrug their shoulders and go along with it?

But what if the Pentagon hadn't?

What if the cops and the military marched on the Capitol with the mob, like Donnie, in his usual, "not telling or ordering you to do, but you know what I want you to do" mob boss manner urged them to do in his address at the rally?

It WAS that close to succeeding.

[Handyman]

Parlertakes posted this:



Oh boy they are eating their own...

[Handyman]

But what if the Pentagon hadn't?

What if the cops and the military marched on the Capitol with the mob, like Donnie, in his usual, "not telling or ordering you to do, but you know what I want you to do" mob boss manner urged them to do in his address at the rally?

It WAS that close to succeeding.

And what if I won the lottery and married a supermodel? If you are asking what if that means it didn't happen and if you are naming multiple variables it wasnt really close. Like when your team loses and you go "what if the QB doesn't get sacked on this play and what if they call this penalty?". Well yeah if everything that went wrong went right you have a better outcome.

[BassAle]

But what if the Pentagon hadn't?

What if the cops and the military marched on the Capitol with the mob, like Donnie, in his usual, "not telling or ordering you to do, but you know what I want you to do" mob boss manner urged them to do in his address at the rally?

It WAS that close to succeeding.

Of course if the cops and military marched on the Capitol we'd be ****ed.

I'm not saying it wasn't, and still isn't, a dangerous situation -- but I don't think this is some kind of sophisticated plot with inside help. These are a bunch of [dangerous] nut jobs posting crazy **** on the internet that are so delusional that some of them think they are some part of a patriotic army.That's ****ed up for sure, but I don't think they were even close to succeeding at anything that would have come close to their objective of "stopping the steal". They probably DID come dangerously close to killing some politicians, but that still wouldn't have overturned the election.

[MichVandal]

That is kind of what he is saying though. It takes those middle officers who want to move up (without merit) to be able to pull it off. Just having the head of the Army isnt going to do anything...they are one against many. (the many who can choose to ignore him cause he is never with them) But when your Captain is the one pushing it, the people you have fought with and trained with...it has way more weight. When the Colonel in charge of your base has the balls to take action you will fight for him over the faceless name who sends you orders every so often.

Given how large, diverse, and distributed our armed forces are- it would take a whole lot of those middle officers to pull that off.

[MichVandal]

But what if the Pentagon hadn't?

What if the cops and the military marched on the Capitol with the mob, like Donnie, in his usual, "not telling or ordering you to do, but you know what I want you to do" mob boss manner urged them to do in his address at the rally?

It WAS that close to succeeding.

From kidnapping people, sure.

From an actual coup, not even close. Again, all it takes is ONE illegal order, and then military shifts who they listen to. So far, the integrity of our military leaders have really shown here- for it to really work, ALL of the joint chiefs would have to be in on it, as well as all of their subordinates.

That, and just taking out congress does not end our country. It would be REALLY hard to run it for a while, but thanks to the distribution of the states, it would not doom the entire thing to nothing.

And we are circled back to the "What's the Point" argument that Handy just made.

[MichVandal]

It's funny- we all think about our central government, and how bad that is.

But the reality is that government is very distributed around this country, running stuff on their own levels (city, county, state, federal- which is also regional somewhat). And that also goes for the military- other than the one CIC, the fact that we have multiple branches, doing totally different things, distributed all around the world- it makes any quick take over unrealistic. To the point that even if we were invaded, taking DC would be rather meaningless. Much like how taking Philadelphia didn't end the revolution back in 1777.

[Handyman]

An Article About Crazy Eyes

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

An Article About Crazy Eyes

Sent that to my mom earlier when she mentioned the story about a Congresswoman who led a tour full of suspects through the Capitol the day before the insurrection. Her response?

"Lauren and Ocasio-Cortez seem like two kinds of opposites."



So my own mother is still playing the "both sides" game. I've just about given up on Boomers ever seeing the light.

[rufus]

Of course if the cops and military marched on the Capitol we'd be ****ed.

I'm not saying it wasn't, and still isn't, a dangerous situation -- but I don't think this is some kind of sophisticated plot with inside help. These are a bunch of [dangerous] nut jobs posting crazy **** on the internet that are so delusional that some of them think they are some part of a patriotic army.That's ****ed up for sure, but I don't think they were even close to succeeding at anything that would have come close to their objective of "stopping the steal". They probably DID come dangerously close to killing some politicians, but that still wouldn't have overturned the election.

I think there was inside help. But those inside were just as stupid and delusional as those outside. We'll have to wait and see if they even investigate deep enough to possibly reveal all of that, or just arrest and charge a bunch of guys with horns on their head and call it good.

[rufus]

From kidnapping people, sure.

From an actual coup, not even close. Again, all it takes is ONE illegal order, and then military shifts who they listen to. So far, the integrity of our military leaders have really shown here- for it to really work, ALL of the joint chiefs would have to be in on it, as well as all of their subordinates.

That, and just taking out congress does not end our country. It would be REALLY hard to run it for a while, but thanks to the distribution of the states, it would not doom the entire thing to nothing.

And we are circled back to the "What's the Point" argument that Handy just made.

But if the run of the mill military, the MAGA grunts on the ground, all decide to forsake their Constitutional oaths and follow their MAGA Messiah on down to the Capitol, like it appears a lot of cops did, it's perilously close to the joint chiefs not having any say in the matter anymore.

[rufus]

And by succeeding, I mean, seizing the building, maybe killing a few people. Their long term plans, keeping Donnie as president, depended upon what he did, and what the military and the states did in response. With him having just installed his lackeys in charge of the military, and the number of states under Republican control, that answer is what scares me.

It WAS that close. 150 Republican reps voted to overturn the results of the election. Easy enough to get that moving down at the state level, and then the resulting pressure on those not in line, both political and mob-induced, might have been enough to break down all the barriers.

[Handyman]

There is not a Blue State that would have gone along with it...hell even some Red States wouldnt have. They would leave the Union before they would allow dictatorial overthrow. It would be Civil War 2 not "Donny Inserts Himself As King For Life".

Speaking of morons:

https://twitter.com/DavidBegnaud/sta...36624994070528

ARRESTED: The man who use the American flag to beat a police officer at Capitol riot has been charged with a federal crime. He is Peter Stager of Arkansas. He’s on video saying: “Death is the only remedy for what’s in that building.”

That guy is definitely Antifa!

[SJHovey]

What I’m speaking about is these people were steps away from breaking into the actual chambers and taking Congresspersons hostage. That takes some smarts to even get that close as they did, and that’s f-ing scary.

I completely disagree with this statement.

If you try to get inside the vault of a major Las Vegas casino and almost succeed, that takes some smarts precisely because it is expected that someone will try to do precisely that.

Who would be insane enough to try to go with a mob of 1000 people to take control of the Capitol building and take the VP and Speaker prisoner?

With all due respect to the capitol police on duty outside the capitol building, they probably spend 98% of their time telling tourists where the nearest bathroom is, reuniting a lost kid with his parents or tour group, and telling people this area of the capitol is closed for the evening.

Now, do I expect that to change? Probably. Certainly in the short term.

But the insanity of the idea is what made it relatively easy, with little or no intelligence or planning, to pull off.