POTUS 45.65: I'm Just Here For The Lincoln Project Ads

[aparch]

Trump has gone full red pill and was promoting Q memes on his Truth Social.

https://twitter.com/willsommer/statu...97065492455424

[French Rage]

Trump has gone full red pill and was promoting Q memes on his Truth Social.

https://twitter.com/willsommer/statu...97065492455424

All of the Q people should go visit him at MAL. Any security person in front is a deep-state operative, so feel free to take them out.

[St. Clown]

It's a fascinating complaint to read. It's long, stretching to over 220 pages, but has lot's of interesting details in it.

One thing that is interesting is the nature of the fraud complaint, at least as described in the first quarter of the complaint.

When people think of fraud, people tend to think of things like the Madoff example. Madoff makes false statements, provides false documents, etc..., and as part of that he lines his own pockets with other people's money, and his investors basically lose everything they invested.

The AG seems to be saying that is not the same case here. This is not necessarily a case where any individuals or businesses or banks were harmed. To the contrary, it appears that in an effort to dodge this complaint, most of the loans and other lenders have been paid.

The basic claim of the AG is this: Trump prepared false financial statements by grossly inflating the values of property, used the financial statements to get big loans, then financially benefited from those loans. The AG acknowledges that the banks were all paid back. It is the AG's position that under NY fraud law, you don't need someone harmed by the false statements. It's enough that you benefited financially from those false statements.

I think that's very interesting. It's almost a victimless crime, but one by which Trump clearly benefited.

I haven't had time to read the last three quarters of the complaint, so I'm curious to see what the rest of the allegations are, including things like the tax fraud.

The victim my brother the bank according to the law, but other potential clients of the banks were also impact, and those potential clients negatively. Banks do not hold unlimited appetite for taking on loans, nor does the Federal Reserve allow it. So that book has a limit. Other people were impacted yet again by TFG’s lies.

[mookie1995]

The victim my brother the bank according to the law, but other potential clients of the banks were also impact, and those potential clients negatively. Banks do not hold unlimited appetite for taking on loans, nor does the Federal Reserve allow it. So that book has a limit. Other people were impacted yet again by TFG’s lies.

lookit
trump ain’t mookie’s favorite, but referring to him as The Fat Guy is just wrong… fatties have feeling too :-(

[LynahFan]

I haven’t really seen anyone say it, but I assume it must be the case that entering an inflated value onto the loan application, signing the form, and delivering it to the bank is a crime, in and of itself. It shouldn’t matter if the bank does its own appraisal and offers terms based on a more reasonable value. Just lying on the application should be a crime, regardless of whether anyone takes any action based on that lie.

If the bank corrects the value and offers the proper terms, then in that case it truly would be victimless, because TFG wouldn’t have gotten a more favorable loan than he “deserved,” but that should still be a crime, to my way of thinking.

Anyone know for sure if this is the case?

[SonofSouthie]

I haven’t really seen anyone say it, but I assume it must be the case that entering an inflated value onto the loan application, signing the form, and delivering it to the bank is a crime, in and of itself. It shouldn’t matter if the bank does its own appraisal and offers terms based on a more reasonable value. Just lying on the application should be a crime, regardless of whether anyone takes any action based on that lie.

If the bank corrects the value and offers the proper terms, then in that case it truly would be victimless, because TFG wouldn’t have gotten a more favorable loan than he “deserved,” but that should still be a crime, to my way of thinking.

Anyone know for sure if this is the case?

Nosing around I found this,

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdca/pr...e-years-prison

[SJHovey]

I haven’t really seen anyone say it, but I assume it must be the case that entering an inflated value onto the loan application, signing the form, and delivering it to the bank is a crime, in and of itself. It shouldn’t matter if the bank does its own appraisal and offers terms based on a more reasonable value. Just lying on the application should be a crime, regardless of whether anyone takes any action based on that lie.

If the bank corrects the value and offers the proper terms, then in that case it truly would be victimless, because TFG wouldn’t have gotten a more favorable loan than he “deserved,” but that should still be a crime, to my way of thinking.

Anyone know for sure if this is the case?

I think you are 100% correct on this. My guess is that if you fill out a fraudulent loan application and don't even get the loan, that is likely a crime.

But here is what's interesting about the NY case (and again, just due to some other time issues I still haven't gotten past the first quarter or so of the complaint.) It's a civil case, not a criminal prosecution, as I understand it. It can, and probably should lead to a criminal prosecution if the NY AG has the goods on him, but I think the present case is just a civil claim, trying to get money back from him.

Because it's a civil case, in most instances I think a party who claims fraud probably has to show a false statement that was made with an intent that the other party rely upon it, along with some damages.

But as the NY AG writes in the complaint, in terms of the government making the claim, they are not trying to recover money that was taken from someone (or a victim, so to speak), but they are asking for a "disgorgement" of what they say Trump gained from getting these loans, even if the banks were paid back in full. Sort of like a claim that Trump illegally profited from his act, and therefore he should have to give the profit he made to the state (not any bank or other "victim.")

The only reason I posted about it is that I just think that's an interesting claim under NY law, apparently.

[burd]

I think you are 100% correct on this. My guess is that if you fill out a fraudulent loan application and don't even get the loan, that is likely a crime.

But here is what's interesting about the NY case (and again, just due to some other time issues I still haven't gotten past the first quarter or so of the complaint.) It's a civil case, not a criminal prosecution, as I understand it. It can, and probably should lead to a criminal prosecution if the NY AG has the goods on him, but I think the present case is just a civil claim, trying to get money back from him.

Because it's a civil case, in most instances I think a party who claims fraud probably has to show a false statement that was made with an intent that the other party rely upon it, along with some damages.

But as the NY AG writes in the complaint, in terms of the government making the claim, they are not trying to recover money that was taken from someone (or a victim, so to speak), but they are asking for a "disgorgement" of what they say Trump gained from getting these loans, even if the banks were paid back in full. Sort of like a claim that Trump illegally profited from his act, and therefore he should have to give the profit he made to the state (not any bank or other "victim.")

The only reason I posted about it is that I just think that's an interesting claim under NY law, apparently.

I think you are mixing typical common law tort concepts in with the statutory claim. You pretty much point that out yourself, I guess.

[Handyman]

https://twitter.com/JacobRubashkin/s...96881292582914

So Trump finally finds a respected Florida lawyer to represent him in the Mar-a-Lago documents investigation, pays him $3 million upfront, and then weeks later the lawyer is no longer on the case?

(likely Trump gets a lot of the money back)

[LynahFan]

Such a Trump move (aside from actually paying the guy). In a documents dispute, picking a guy who could never conceivably be cleared to review the documents in question is……not 6D chess.

[Handyman]

Judge Dearie does not like Judge Cannon...

https://twitter.com/rgoodlaw/status/1574845012029890562

[ScoobyDoo]

Judge Dearie does not like Judge Cannon...

https://twitter.com/rgoodlaw/status/1574845012029890562

No sane person does.

[rufus]

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/202...hony-and-whiny

Always projecting.

Trump reportedly rips DeSantis as 'fat' and 'phony' and 'whiny'

[Handyman]

https://twitter.com/MuellerSheWrote/...cUMmjDuSA&s=19

BREAKING: DoJ has asked Dearie for another day to secure a 3rd party vendor to create a portal to share info with Donald because NO VENDOR WOULD AGREE TO WORK WITH DONALD. DoJ says they expect Donald to PAY for the vendor LOL

[Handyman]

https://twitter.com/ryanjreilly/stat...N1fGfODPQ&s=19

Here’s a phone call Mike Fanone got tonight after his assailant Kyle Young was sentenced to more than seven years in federal prison in his Jan. 6 case.

But remember we need to be nice to these ****s.