POTUS 45.65: I'm Just Here For The Lincoln Project Ads

[Swansong]

No. It's that insane.

For example. More of the country finds what AOC says scary than anything Trump has ever said. That's insane. That's a huge part of the population. Trump essentially sans California got half the vote. 80% of that half is now royally ****ed off at Fox News.

I'm aghast by much of what she says, but I feel the difference is that I recognize there's a 0% chance the GND gets passed in the near future and that at the same time Trump was a direct threat to our fundamental democracy. If you're up in the air on COVID or more right-leaning than I am, I could see that same calculus resulting in a different opinion. To say nothing of the single-issue-abortion voters. (we can ignore that obvious hypocrisy for a moment)

In the media you will hear more talk about how AOC needs to dial it back then you will hear anything about any Republican having to dial anything any of them has ever said back. That's America. That's where we are living right now.

You'll hear it on MSNBC as the Democrats look to why they (again) under-performed in what should have been a layup election, and you'll hear it at Fox News as they desperately try to draw attention to the other side, but 24 hour news is not "The Media". It's merely a chunk of it. Much the same way that Twitter Isn't Real Life.

[ScoobyDoo]

I'm aghast by much of what she says, but I feel the difference is that I recognize there's a 0% chance the GND gets passed in the near future and that at the same time Trump was a direct threat to our fundamental democracy. If you're up in the air on COVID or more right-leaning than I am, I could see that same calculus resulting in a different opinion. To say nothing of the single-issue-abortion voters. (we can ignore that obvious hypocrisy for a moment)



You'll hear it on MSNBC as the Democrats look to why they (again) under-performed in what should have been a layup election, and you'll hear it at Fox News as they desperately try to draw attention to the other side, but 24 hour news is not "The Media". It's merely a chunk of it. Much the same way that Twitter Isn't Real Life.

I heard it on EVERY mainstream news channel this weekend. ALL OF THEM. Unless you consider ABC, NBC, and CBS not to be mainstream.

[ScoobyDoo]

You also have to overcome the fact that the 50% that thinks AOC talking GND is scarier than a guy whose afraid of a caravan from Mexico is the same group of people that doesn't realize that Medicare and Social Security are socialism.

Whoops.

[Handyman]

Yeah the media is definitely already into "divide" mode when it comes to the Dems. They arent even trying to hide it...

[ScoobyDoo]

Yeah the media is definitely already into "divide" mode when it comes to the Dems. They arent even trying to hide it...

I find it fascinating that they do that and yet to this day nothing Trump has ever done has affected a single Republican in power. Hell, Susan Collins won. Square that somehow. I can't do it.

[WeAreNDHockey]

I don't agree with that. I think, in time, a lot of Republicans will return to something approaching normal. I look at my dad, for example. Not a Trumper, but voted for him twice. He offers - at best - tepid defense and then grows quiet because he knows he's not convincing. I think he is more common than these incel idiots who were in DC on Saturday.

Half the country didn't just suddenly turn insane.

Tepid defense makes no more sense than rabid defense though, knowing what is known about trump.

And no, half the country didn't just suddenly turn insane, half the country has been moving in that direction for 30 or more years now. trump simply became the first politician to decide to go full in with them.

Had John McCain let the woman blathering about some racist trope concerning Obama in that town hall 12 years ago go on blathering and then agreed with her, instead of doing the right thing and defending Obama as a true American he just disagreed with politically, do you actually think republicans would have turned on him and all voted for Obama or some 3rd party candidate who WASN'T racist? No way. He would have gotten 99% of the vote he got anyway.

We have been deteriorating as a country for years. More people are just seeing it now. It's why Senators in safe republican states who are not up for reelection until 2022 or even 2024 are not really willing to call trump out for his behavior. They know he is gone from the White House in January and 4 years from now won't have the same influence over the party. They are afraid that most of their voters are insane (of course the Senators might be insane too) and they will get primaried right out of D.C. and all that power.

When the republicans start running candidates who refuse to kowtow to racists and other insane people or current republican office holders start putting forth policies that are not insane, maybe I'll believe things will someday return to something approaching "normal." Until then the republican party in its entirety IS trump's party, every bit as useless and evil as he has been.

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

You also have to overcome the fact that the 50% that thinks AOC talking GND is scarier than a guy whose afraid of a caravan from Mexico is the same group of people that doesn't realize that Medicare and Social Security are socialism.

Whoops.

I don’t get all the fear over GND. Should it pass exactly as written right now? Nothing is.
thr costs of not improving infrastructure and not investing in other forms of energy is just gonna cost a whole lot more money later.

[ScoobyDoo]

I don’t get all the fear over GND. Should it pass exactly as written right now? Nothing is.
thr costs of not improving infrastructure and not investing in other forms of energy is just gonna cost a whole lot more money later.

There is NOTHING scary about it at all. People scared of it are just typical humans afraid of change.

[WeAreNDHockey]

I'm aghast by much of what she says, but I feel the difference is that I recognize there's a 0% chance the GND gets passed in the near future and that at the same time Trump was a direct threat to our fundamental democracy.

Why be aghast at something AOC might say about the Green New Deal. I get thinking it reaches further than a centrist populace would be willing to do. I get that maybe you think there is validity to the arguments saying it would be more expensive than she has opined or not generate as many new jobs. But AGHAST? I'm not aghast when someone proposes a flat-tax. Do I think it would generate enough revenue? No. Do I think it is fundamentally less fair than a progressive tax? Sure. But I'm not aghast. I'm aghast that I have a president who is a racist. I'm aghast that I have a president who has literally allowed tens of thousands of his fellow citizens to die of a virus needlessly.

Maybe you just grabbed the wrong word. I'm not shocked or horrified by an alternate political solution. But I am of a president (and his enabling politicians and voters too) who is killing people and is threatening every democratic norm in my country. If you meant to use that word, I guess we just have very different ideas about what to be truly afraid of.

[Scarlet]

Why be aghast at something AOC might say about the Green New Deal. I get thinking it reaches further than a centrist populace would be willing to do. I get that maybe you think there is validity to the arguments saying it would be more expensive than she has opined or not generate as many new jobs. But AGHAST? I'm not aghast when someone proposes a flat-tax. Do I think it would generate enough revenue? No. Do I think it is fundamentally less fair than a progressive tax? Sure. But I'm not aghast. I'm aghast that I have a president who is a racist. I'm aghast that I have a president who has literally allowed tens of thousands of his fellow citizens to die of a virus needlessly.

Maybe you just grabbed the wrong word. I'm not shocked or horrified by an alternate political solution. But I am of a president (and his enabling politicians and voters too) who is killing people and is threatening every democratic norm in my country. If you meant to use that word, I guess we just have very different ideas about what to be truly afraid of.

You worded that better than I could've. Aghast? How on earth could you be aghast at anything she says? She's not always right, but she is calm, cool, collected and PREPARED with everything she discusses.

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

You worded that better than I could've. Aghast? How on earth could you be aghast at anything she says? She's not always right, but she is calm, cool, collected and PREPARED with everything she discusses.

Aoc derangement syndrome?

[ScoobyDoo]

Aoc derangement syndrome?

Not only is it AOC derangement syndrome. But that syndrome TOWERS over the supposed Trump derangement syndrome that the right thinks exists.

[Kepler]

They still have more than 10 times the viewers of Newsmax, and people - normal people - can actually watch Fox News on every cable service in the country (unlike Newsmax or OANN). I'm not saying Fox News has a good long term outlook, but Trump and his idiot cultists can kick and scream all he wants but in 4 months, nothing but the truest of true believers will bother to go look for the other "news" organizations.

I wouldn't be so sure of this. Fox' base viewership is the full tard right, and at the moment they are following Dump. If this becomes a Right civil war Dump is going to win, just like he won the nomination. At their core, the GOP and Fox are Plutes cynically ripping off tards to jam through low taxes. Dump is full bore fascism, from the ground up -- he believes in the tards because he is one of them -- it is one stop hatred of POC, women, liberals, and non-fundies. Dump wins that battle because the tards know one of their own.

[Swansong]

AOC is incredibly charismatic, charming and well spoken. She's brilliant at using new media to her benefit and has that sort of crafty smarts we want in a bomb-throwing politician. But that's what she is - an iconoclast in the mold of Bernie or, once upon a time, Ron Paul. She a lightening rod for ill or good, depending on your party affiliation (or place within said party).

I'm not particularly interested in a GND debate right now, but yes. I think it's mostly lunacy after reading her synopsis of it (the one where she earnestly referenced "farting cows"). To me, the only difference between her and an old guy like Bernie is that she's young enough to think she'll have actual legislative accomplishments, while Bernie is experienced enough to know better. Wing politicians like them usually don't.


edit: also, for the record, I think it's incredibly premature to blame the left or moderates or space jesus for the Democratic party's underperformance. I have my own thoughts, but they're super preliminary and unformed by facts that we have not yet ascertained, so I'll keep them where they belong - to me. There will be plenty of time for a Lessons Learned on the 2020 election.

[Swansong]

I wouldn't be so sure of this. Fox' base viewership is the full tard right, and at the moment they are following Dump. If this becomes a Right civil war Dump is going to win, just like he won the nomination. At their core, the GOP and Fox are Plutes cynically ripping off tards to jam through low taxes. Dump is full bore fascism, from the ground up -- he believes in the tards because he is one of them -- it is one stop hatred of POC, women, liberals, and non-fundies. Dump wins that battle because the tards know one of their own.

Fox also is a money-making business owned by a ruthless son-of-a-bit(h who now has a target. Hannity, Tucker and Ingraham may be part of the Trump Cult in image and in word, but they also like the paycheck that Fox provides them (which would be orders of magnitude more than the crazy right wing competitors could pay).