Covfefe-19 The 12th Part: The Only Thing Worse Than This New Board Is TrumpVirus2020

[MichVandal]

How the turn tables:

Just the other day, there was a local interview on the subject of vaccines being a requirement, and the antivaxor woman basically said that she could find a job anywhere. So good luck with that.

[rufus]

I don't buy it. The whole time he was "developing" the vaccine he was undermining the vaccine. I doubt he ever would have went into brag mode about it and thus they never would have gotten it.

He was undermining Covid. I don't think he said a bad word about the vaccine. he was pushing to get it approved before the election, so he could use that in his campaign "See, I delivered this miracle to you in record time. I, alone."

Was he also pushing quack cures and such? Sure, but not saying, take this, don't do the vaccine.

[dxmnkd316]

Those are very good numbers. Basically, there are 30% of people who are insane and we should simply ignore them.

I think the general public has started to wrap their minds around that, now. The first reaction, when Dump was elected, was shock and fear. But after the last 4.5 years people have gotten over that and have come to grips with the fact that about a third of the country are unfit for adult responsibilities.

No don't ignore them, you kick them out of society. That's how the contract works.

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

I have to agree with Scooby. They've been downplaying COVID since the beginning saying it's "just the flu," and these are the same people that won't get the flu shot every year. Some of my more derpy co-workers were already bragging about how they weren't going to get it in July. To them, vaccines are for serious diseases like polio and smallpox, not "the flu."

I will also give Trump a little credit for Operation Warp Speed (But most to the scientists and researchers around the world who did the work). While I think a President Clinton would have done the same thing, Trump was in office.

[dxmnkd316]

I like how the Biden admin is going about this with a multilevel attack.

1. Federal contracts tied to falling in line - this will work very well
2. Tying Medicare and Medicaid funds to hospitals and LTCFs - GOOD!!!!
3. OSHA
4. Giving cover to corporations to mandate - takes political heat off companies and diverts it to the Feds. This is good and it will work. It did with mask mandates very early on.

If one fails, there are contingencies. They just need to have the lawyers to fight this multifront battle in the courts. This is a very well thought out plan.

It will be interesting to see how the courts decide on the emergency standard from OSHA. I'm also curious if this will fall under the general duty clause. I have to imagine a lot of labor experts and labor attorneys are working on this and will have a fairly good basis to defend it on. I saw Rick Ungar had pointed out that by allowing employees to be tested instead of vaccinated may be what saves this plan in court. It provides an alternate and reasonable accommodation (which unofan has mentioned on here before). No matter the actual basis and strength of defense, it's still going to be a roll of the dice if the righties on the SCOTUS actually believe in promoting the general welfare of the united states of america.

[dxmnkd316]

I have to agree with Scooby. They've been downplaying COVID since the beginning saying it's "just the flu," and these are the same people that won't get the flu shot every year. Some of my more derpy co-workers were already bragging about how they weren't going to get it in July. To them, vaccines are for serious diseases like polio and smallpox, not "the flu."

I will also give Trump a little credit for Operation Warp Speed (But most to the scientists and researchers around the world who did the work). While I think a President Clinton would have done the same thing, Trump was in office.

Yeah, the biggest question is going to be how to handle the "I got covid, I don't need a shot" group. They might have decent immunity and it could be better than the shot, we have no ****in clue because the science isn't settled. Either way, we do know that getting covid and then getting a shot provides some pretty rock solid numbers in the lab.

[RaceBoarder]

I like how the Biden admin is going about this with a multilevel attack.

1. Federal contracts tied to falling in line - this will work very well
2. Tying Medicare and Medicaid funds to hospitals and LTCFs - GOOD!!!!
3. OSHA
4. Giving cover to corporations to mandate - takes political heat off companies and diverts it to the Feds. This is good and it will work. It did with mask mandates very early on.

If one fails, there are contingencies. They just need to have the lawyers to fight this multifront battle in the courts. This is a very well thought out plan.

It will be interesting to see how the courts decide on the emergency standard from OSHA. I'm also curious if this will fall under the general duty clause. I have to imagine a lot of labor experts and labor attorneys are working on this and will have a fairly good basis to defend it on. I saw Rick Ungar had pointed out that by allowing employees to be tested instead of vaccinated may be what saves this plan in court. It provides an alternate and reasonable accommodation (which unofan has mentioned on here before). No matter the actual basis and strength of defense, it's still going to be a roll of the dice if the righties on the SCOTUS actually believe in promoting the general welfare of the united states of america.

Something I haven't seen mentioned with this is when we will see this go into effect. Are we talking around the New Year? Before? Q2 of 2022?

Obviously the switch won't flip on Monday, but how much time does this need to be fully drafted and implemented?

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

I like how the Biden admin is going about this with a multilevel attack.

1. Federal contracts tied to falling in line - this will work very well
2. Tying Medicare and Medicaid funds to hospitals and LTCFs - GOOD!!!!
3. OSHA
4. Giving cover to corporations to mandate - takes political heat off companies and diverts it to the Feds. This is good and it will work. It did with mask mandates very early on.

If one fails, there are contingencies. They just need to have the lawyers to fight this multifront battle in the courts. This is a very well thought out plan.

It will be interesting to see how the courts decide on the emergency standard from OSHA. I'm also curious if this will fall under the general duty clause. I have to imagine a lot of labor experts and labor attorneys are working on this and will have a fairly good basis to defend it on. I saw Rick Ungar had pointed out that by allowing employees to be tested instead of vaccinated may be what saves this plan in court. It provides an alternate and reasonable accommodation (which unofan has mentioned on here before). No matter the actual basis and strength of defense, it's still going to be a roll of the dice if the righties on the SCOTUS actually believe in promoting the general welfare of the united states of america.

I think of it like this. The federal government is requiring businesses test their employees once a week for COVID, and are exempting people who are vaccinated, just like they require my employer to give me drug and alcohol tests randomly, in the interests of public safety. The only difference is there are no exemptions in the drug/alcohol testing.

[RaceBoarder]

Yeah, the biggest question is going to be how to handle the "I got covid, I don't need a shot" group. They might have decent immunity and it could be better than the shot, we have no ****in clue because the science isn't settled. Either way, we do know that getting covid and then getting a shot provides some pretty rock solid numbers in the lab.

With that, they get 90 days from their negative test or return to work date. That's the window for them to get the shot.

[dxmnkd316]

Nice! My employer is mandating vaccines. That means... IT'S HAPPENING!!!!!!!!!!!!!ronpaul.gif!!!!!! Oh, and there is no testing alternative. You get the vaccine or have an exemption.

It's lame they're allowing religious exemptions though. I'm wondering how that will be reviewed. Maybe get a letter from your pastor or whatever. I don't know.

Either way, if my company is requiring it, then this will be very large wave. Too bad they've all been cowards waiting for someone else to take the political blame instead of doing the right thing first. But whatever, I'm happy(er).




Edit: Interesting. The federal contracts issue is what's driving the "testing is not an alternative". THat has some pretty big teeth. WOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Oh, and all of our contractors will be required to be vaccinated as well.

[dxmnkd316]

Something I haven't seen mentioned with this is when we will see this go into effect. Are we talking around the New Year? Before? Q2 of 2022?

Obviously the switch won't flip on Monday, but how much time does this need to be fully drafted and implemented?

That switch is getting thrown in the C Suites across the US today. My company has been one of the slowest and least forceful (my opinion, not based on anything internal, just relative to other corps who have been in the news locally) to react to this with mandates and requirements. If we're doing it, everyone is doing it and they aren't going to waste their time. Who knows if this is going to take effect 30 days from now or 90. It's not worth coming up with a policy and waiting to see what the timelines are. You know it's happening, there's no need to spend money to fight it, so you flip the switch and get it done.

[RaceBoarder]

That switch is getting thrown in the C Suites across the US today. My company has been one of the slowest and least forceful (my opinion, not based on anything internal, just relative to other corps who have been in the news locally) to react to this with mandates and requirements. If we're doing it, everyone is doing it and they aren't going to waste their time. Who knows if this is going to take effect 30 days from now or 90. It's not worth coming up with a policy and waiting to see what the timelines are. You know it's happening, there's no need to spend money to fight it, so you flip the switch and get it done.

I suppose... I'm curious what this means for my facility (Food Warehouse/Logistics). Our vaccination rate is probably 40% at best. And if the weekly tests aren't covered, ho boy.... There's gonna be some arguing. I'll grab some popcorn for that, lol...

[rufus]

You gotta figure weekly testing of their employees is gonna be expensive. No company if gonna want to bear that expense when they can just force their employee to get vaccinated instead.

[dxmnkd316]

Why would a company pay for testing when there's a perfectly safe, free alternative? That's on the employee. **** em

I don't think there's any obligation for the companies to pay for tests.

[leswp1]

Just heard someone I sort of knew at work died of covid over the weekend. This is the first person I'm even remotely aware of in my circles who has died.

Wow. This is incredible to me. We know multiple people who have died. Way more scary- I know 3 previously healthy people, all under 40, currently are disabled or seriously hampered in their ability to do their job d/t longhaul. One of them used to have a very active job and they just gave him restrictions that make him a desk jockey because if he tries to be up and about baaaaad stuff is happening. A few more who are late 50s who are not incapacitated but have difficulties doing anything but getting thru the work day.

Excited about the mandates.

I am eternally grateful I retired when I did. Have not been keeping in here religiously but haven't seen anything about all of the shortages of medicals in facilities. Nurses, resp therapists, Xray techs are resigning in droves. Have seen a couple of articles on medical pages where they are leaving to work as traveling long term fillins where they can make huge money. One interviewed said the level of frustration at public stupidity, abuse from those claiming hoax, caring for people who didn't care enough to try to prevent being sick, the ridiculous acuity of the patients, lack of staff, and the number of deaths was soul crushing. With the money made being a Traveler she could work a few months, stop for a few months to deal with the trauma of it and then get back in the saddle while still making more than before. She also was not in her own community and was less connected to the people- emotionally easier to deal with than knowing the stupid people. It was rather frightening to read- understandable but awful to think of.

Know someone in a moderately sized Practice connected to a hospital system - they're down 12 providers, cannot staff nurses, phlebotomists, Xray techs, MAs, Nursing assts. People come but quit or they just can't fill after a resignation. This person and their kid (also medical) are both currently out of work in quarantine. Nuts