My wife just sent me a text that her employer (private school) is trying to organize vaccinations for their faculty and staff.
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Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
Don't we leave flu vaccinations up to the states?
It's privately coordinated with general oversight from the CDC.
Given that existing structure, it makes no sense at all to let the states do the work. It's just not something they are skilled at. But given the "leadership" from the CDC's overall boss, it's no shock at all that a brand new way to distribute something that we do every single year in a different form be tried.
As wT pointed out, flu vaccines are rolled out at almost 20M per week nationwide with the current structure. And I've never seen a line at the pharmacies who administer it. 20M/week would cover the US in just over 16 weeks, and that's not a strain on any distribution system.
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Originally posted by BassAle View Post
I think many states are over-thinking distribution. They are too worried that someone "more deserving" might get vaccinated after someone "less deserving" that they overly complicate the prioritization and end up delaying the vaccination of the vulnerable even more than if they just did something super simple that was primarily based on age. Basically what the UK did was prioritize healthcare workers and elderly.
I've been told by someone involved in the vaccination program administration in a hospital that the Feds don't want them holding onto doses. Use all the doses you get, don't hold half in a freezer for the second dose.
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Originally posted by Handyman View Post
Well that is fine for WV (and he is 100% correct) but that is easier to do there than say...California, TX or NY wouldn't you say? There is some rather obvious differences.
Again, if actual people with knowledge of this stuff were in charge on the federal level things would be better off. Make the decisions at the highest level and get things going. Take the decision making out of the hands from the people who are apparently overthinking everything. Not to mention it will offset the "it isnt real" rhetoric if it comes from the people they trust. (i.e. Trump and Trumpers)That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.
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Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
Sure there is going to be a difference between the states. But wouldn't you agree that the states that should be most equipped to handle this without federal hand-holding should be states like NY and California?
How strapped has this pandemic already made them, with no help coming from the feds to offset?What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?
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Originally posted by rufus View Post
Depends.
How strapped has this pandemic already made them, with no help coming from the feds to offset?That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.
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Originally posted by rufus View PostIf the flu was killing 350,000 people/year we wouldn't be.- Heart disease: 655,381
- Cancer: 599,274
- Accidents (unintentional injuries): 167,127
- Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 159,486
- Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 147,810
- Alzheimer’s disease: 122,019
- Diabetes: 84,946
- Influenza and Pneumonia: 59,120
- Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis: 51,386
- Intentional self-harm (suicide): 48,344
Also, I see Cuomo doing his usual Try-To-Fix-Something-But-End-Up-Making-It-Worse routine...
Covid vaccine: NY Gov. Cuomo to propose law making it a crime to skip line (cnbc.com)
Again, this is dumb. If someone is lucky enough to be at the "vaccine counter" when they're going to have to throw some away if they don't get it in an arm, so be it. Spend less time worrying about that, more time worrying about organizing this initial push. If you find someone jumping because they paid money or used their status or fame, fine, prosecute them. But if Joe Blow happens to get it because a pharmacist or nurse is going to have to discard it, that's not a crime.Code:As of 9/21/10: As of 9/13/10: College Hockey 6 College Football 0 BTHC 4 WCHA FC: 1
Originally posted by SanTropezMay your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.Originally posted by bigblue_dlI don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..Originally posted by KeplerWhen the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
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Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
California is the 5th largest economy in the world. If they're too poor to do this, we need to just call it a day.
But you keep on being a self-righteous doosh. You're real good at it.What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?
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If the federal government had a competent response, yeah, you might have a point.Code:As of 9/21/10: As of 9/13/10: College Hockey 6 College Football 0 BTHC 4 WCHA FC: 1
Originally posted by SanTropezMay your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.Originally posted by bigblue_dlI don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..Originally posted by KeplerWhen the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
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Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
Sure there is going to be a difference between the states. But wouldn't you agree that the states that should be most equipped to handle this without federal hand-holding should be states like NY and California?
Whereas the CDC does at least coordinate with the private sector to distribute the flu vaccine ever single year.
Based on experience, the CDC is light years ahead of the individual states. Helping annual flu >>> zero.
Alas, the CDC got their knees knocked early on to actually help.
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Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View PostAlso, I see Cuomo doing his usual Try-To-Fix-Something-But-End-Up-Making-It-Worse routine...
Covid vaccine: NY Gov. Cuomo to propose law making it a crime to skip line (cnbc.com)
Again, this is dumb. If someone is lucky enough to be at the "vaccine counter" when they're going to have to throw some away if they don't get it in an arm, so be it. Spend less time worrying about that, more time worrying about organizing this initial push. If you find someone jumping because they paid money or used their status or fame, fine, prosecute them. But if Joe Blow happens to get it because a pharmacist or nurse is going to have to discard it, that's not a crime.
That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.
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Originally posted by MichVandal View Post
Not according to the CDC- https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/vaxsupply.htm
It's privately coordinated with general oversight from the CDC.
Given that existing structure, it makes no sense at all to let the states do the work. It's just not something they are skilled at. But given the "leadership" from the CDC's overall boss, it's no shock at all that a brand new way to distribute something that we do every single year in a different form be tried.
As wT pointed out, flu vaccines are rolled out at almost 20M per week nationwide with the current structure. And I've never seen a line at the pharmacies who administer it. 20M/week would cover the US in just over 16 weeks, and that's not a strain on any distribution system.
-in general there is no shortage-
-there are different formulations- injection and nasal mist with only one does required.
-the orders and coordination for ordering happen months in advance- you have options of where to obtain and have predictable, scheduled deliveries
-it is distributed in multiple settings- private offices, clinics, pharmacies, various town/county 'clinics', in-patient settings, residential settings
-all settings have protocols set up to encourage people to get the vaccine and most start promoting this months in advance- our practice sent out messages to everyone on the portal.
-storage is pretty basic- regular fridge- in some of the pop up places they put it in a cooler but it is gone so fast it doesn't spoil.
Even when we had H1N1 where they had to work on the fly, we had excellent communication re the supply of vaccine, when it was coming, and who should get it first.
Current vaccine is completely different-
-more than one type- not interchangeable.
-2 doses needed and they have to be the same kind
-limited supply. Usual system of ordering, coordinating what/when/how much is not in control of the people who are attempting to coordinate.
-there was no ramp up preparing people for what would happen creating confusion for everyone at every level. They didn't make recommendations until it was approved and there was all sorts of debate in attempt to predict what the recommendations would be.
- supply chain is not clear/not predictable. It's not delivering as promised which makes planning a cf- you need to give vaccine while rationing what is available hope delivery happens for dose 2
- Most places are getting both types but what and how much is is a roll of the dice. exacerbating planning issues.
- guidance has been given but no real leadership- it is like the wild wild west with different States doing different stuff.
- you need to observe the pt after it is given for at least 15 minutes so you can't just do drive thru- you need to put them somewhere- NH is doing drive thru and holding in parking lot.
- Not available to many of the places who would usually give flu vaccine- private practices, small clinics, pharmacies, various small facilities- the distribution lots are too large and they don't have volume or storage. Storage is an issue for most of the places that pop up to distribute the flu vax.Last edited by leswp1; 01-04-2021, 05:04 PM.
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Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
Sure there is going to be a difference between the states. But wouldn't you agree that the states that should be most equipped to handle this without federal hand-holding should be states like NY and California?
*a lot of the fly over States and southern States have minimal Public Health infrastructure. This has been true since I was in grad school in the mid 80s. No matter what the protocols say, they are incapable of implementing without a whole lot of help- esp in the rural areas decimated from yrs of underfunding and no State support.
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