Covfefe-19 The 12th Part: The Only Thing Worse Than This New Board Is TrumpVirus2020

[TalonsUpPuckDown]

The only good thing when the vaccine becomes available, and certain people won't take it( you know who they are) is that the virus will then only be killing the right people.

Right now, too many otherwise innocent people have lost their lives because of the stupidity and selfishness of other people.

I'm currently consulting at a substantially large, global pharmaceutical company with direct interests in the current vaccine situation. The question I asked about 2h ago was whether or not you could still carry and spread the virus after completing the full vaccine regimen. The answer: "Yeah, we don't really know, there wasn't enough data from the trial to draw a firm conclusion." If that's the case, the anti-vaxxers counting on herd immunity may be in for a surprise.

[rufus]

I'm currently consulting at a substantially large, global pharmaceutical company with direct interests in the current vaccine situation. The question I asked about 2h ago was whether or not you could still carry and spread the virus after completing the full vaccine regimen. The answer: "Yeah, we don't really know, there wasn't enough data from the trial to draw a firm conclusion." If that's the case, the anti-vaxxers counting on herd immunity may be in for a surprise.

So, you're saying you could still have the virus, you could still spread it. But you yourself wouldn't get sick because you had the vaccine.

[Swansong]

It did not have to spread, but it was inevitable that it would spread. As much responsibility as trump and the republican enablers must shoulder, the American people must shoulder a large burden of it too. People have been willfully blind here.

They CHOOSE to gather in crowds at bars, restaurants, weddings and other activities. They CHOOSE to forego masks. For some, they CHOOSE to go to work sick. They CHOOSE to decide against being tested even if they have a known exposure. They CHOOSE to circulate immediately AFTER a positive test because they don't "feel" sick. Every time I hear some talking head on CNN berate the administration for its failure to lead I am struck by the notion that there is so much information and evidence out there that no one in this country can legitimately say they could not have known how serious this pandemic is.

At some point this ceases to be trump's fault and becomes the fault of the people of this country who have chosen to put so many of us at risk.

I agree, but I lay a lot of the blame for American's doing what we did on the Republicans and the right wing media. Early on, you had Fox News babbling about how silly it was and that it was just another attempt to derail Trump's presidency. Then Trump bought in on that and millions of lemmings followed suit.

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

So, you're saying you could still have the virus, you could still spread it. But you yourself wouldn't get sick because you had the vaccine.

And then there are mutations.

we need enough people to get the damn vaccine

[Swansong]

I'm currently consulting at a substantially large, global pharmaceutical company with direct interests in the current vaccine situation. The question I asked about 2h ago was whether or not you could still carry and spread the virus after completing the full vaccine regimen. The answer: "Yeah, we don't really know, there wasn't enough data from the trial to draw a firm conclusion." If that's the case, the anti-vaxxers counting on herd immunity may be in for a surprise.

I've been reading about this. "Success" from the testing, and I defer to you, is whether the test subject develops antibodies, correct? It's still technically possible to have said antibodies, fight off the infection but still be - at least somewhat - contagious. Correct?

[SJHovey]

And then there are mutations.

we need enough people to get the **** vaccine

The public information campaign is going to be hugely important. Biden gets it publicly. The past Presidents get it publicly. Get some athletes, movie stars, governors, etc..., to do the same. Doctors need to be able to tell people they got it.

[leswp1]

I understand not closing down. I disagree, but understand. Here is the logic:

• To close down we would need federal money for those out of work and for businesses. The state is out of money.
• The feds will not be offering any assistance anytime soon. The Republicans have seen to that, and Trump couldn't possibly care less.
• Further closures will result in an economic collapse as businesses close and people run out of money (and no end in sight, so likely they will end up running out of UI as well).
• The negative impacts to population health of what would be a total depression would likely (or at least, possibly) be worse than the impacts of COVID.

I lay this firmly on the feet of the federal government. This is an abject failure of leadership, and we have a lot to be ashamed of. This is exactly why we have a federal government, and we failed. The refrain I keep hearing from the right is that "Pelosi just wants to bail out all the cities that burned down from the riots - they should receive nothing." I don't even know where to start correcting that.

I know the 'logic' prresented but it fails me. Saying people need to persist does not prevent any of the things people are claiming they are going to prevent. This doesn't go away.

People are burning resources with the known outcome of failure. Closures are going to happen anyway- dead and sick people do not spend. Smart people do not go out. There are only so many stupid people and they can't prop up whole sectors of the economy. When things actually do get safe they will have burnt all the money they needed to start up again- a total waste.

Whether the Feds offer anything or not it does not change the fact that the above will happen. Does anyone honestly believe that if they opened everything up people would come out and go about their business? No. Most people are staying in. There are multiple anecdotal posts from business owners saying this. Again- there are only so many stupid people who don't get this is dangerous who actually have $$. They are not enough.

Dead people don't get depressed? I would say depression for the most part sucks but it isn't worse that the impact of being dead or severely debilitated.

Are people depressed by isolating? yes. they are also depressed because they are feeling anxious, unsafe and frustrated that people are selfish enough they can't be safe. If they or their family member gets it then they can be depressed because they have to pay $$ for medical care, the loss of income when their family has to quarantine or isolate, the longhauler complications, etc.

I get things are bad. Yes. They. Are. But this is how it is and kicking the can down the road is exactly how we got where we are. Worse off, still trying to pretend we can continue on. At some point people will run out of ways to plug the dyke and they have sold their boat down the river.

[Kepler]

I certainly don't intend to be disingenuous. I don't think I'm a dupe or a political stooge. I think if you had to boil down my opinion regarding Covid to a single statement, which I have essentially argued throughout, it would be this: Short of a vaccine, I don't think we have nearly as much ability to control this disease as a lot of people here (and elsewhere) think we do.

That's all. It's just an opinion, but it's my opinion.

OK. But where I don't follow is your next step which seems to be: "since protection isn't determinative then why do it?"

I can't absolutely be sure I won't still get cavities if I brush, but I still brush. I even floss even though it is a royal PITA. And I got one of those water pic things which is messy (though if we're being candid it gets my teeth so clean I actually get an erotic charge out of running my tongue over them, which more than justifies the cost). And I refrain from sweets on the say-so of a scientist which is an act of faith because it isn't my field. And that sucks because I LOVE candy.

And, even with all that, I still have dental bills, but I have avoided a disasterous health problem relating to dental hygiene so far.

If I may parody your position, it seems like it is "we can't absolutely control whether we get cavities, so sure I'll brush cuz that's easy but flossing is too big a burden and I'm still eating candy cuz MA FREEDUMB plus Willy Wonka gotta eat."

[leswp1]

It did not have to spread, but it was inevitable that it would spread. As much responsibility as trump and the republican enablers must shoulder, the American people must shoulder a large burden of it too. People have been willfully blind here.

They CHOOSE to gather in crowds at bars, restaurants, weddings and other activities. They CHOOSE to forego masks. For some, they CHOOSE to go to work sick. They CHOOSE to decide against being tested even if they have a known exposure. They CHOOSE to circulate immediately AFTER a positive test because they don't "feel" sick. Every time I hear some talking head on CNN berate the administration for its failure to lead I am struck by the notion that there is so much information and evidence out there that no one in this country can legitimately say they could not have known how serious this pandemic is.

At some point this ceases to be trump's fault and becomes the fault of the people of this country who have chosen to put so many of us at risk.

It is not just the Dumpers. Our culture promotes that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. We reward and revere people who whine and complain enough so they get what they want. They are smart because they get what they are entitled to and no one is going to cheat them out of what they deserve/should have/should be able to do. Selfishness has become a respected trait. People also think they should be able to be special, that rules are a suggestion- they should be able to bend them just this once, do just this one thing (the killing words).

Now, when we need people to pull together, we have a bunch of people who achieved their perceived status by being d1cks and do not want to let that mentality go. Go read the hockey least thread. It reads like a kindergarten tantrum- I want my hockey. I have had to suffer thru 8 months of this pandemic. I don't care what happens to anyone, how dare they say I can't watch a game. And if they are challenged the response is equally infantile.

Hoping we get a critical mass of leaders/influencers- the previous Presidents, diff sports figures, different people from entertainment industry along with the experts and community leaders to drown out the message from the selfish, self absorbed.

[Kepler]

( TalonsUpPuckDown)

I love this user name. Who is it for? Air Force?

[Kepler]

Dead people don't get depressed?

You have clearly never been to Troy.

[Swansong]

I know the 'logic' prresented but it fails me. Saying people need to persist does not prevent any of the things people are claiming they are going to prevent. This doesn't go away.

People are burning resources with the known outcome of failure. Closures are going to happen anyway- dead and sick people do not spend. Smart people do not go out. There are only so many stupid people and they can't prop up whole sectors of the economy. When things actually do get safe they will have burnt all the money they needed to start up again- a total waste.

Whether the Feds offer anything or not it does not change the fact that the above will happen. Does anyone honestly believe that if they opened everything up people would come out and go about their business? No. Most people are staying in. There are multiple anecdotal posts from business owners saying this. Again- there are only so many stupid people who don't get this is dangerous who actually have $$. They are not enough.

Dead people don't get depressed? I would say depression for the most part sucks but it isn't worse that the impact of being dead or severely debilitated.

Are people depressed by isolating? yes. they are also depressed because they are feeling anxious, unsafe and frustrated that people are selfish enough they can't be safe. If they or their family member gets it then they can be depressed because they have to pay $$ for medical care, the loss of income when their family has to quarantine or isolate, the longhauler complications, etc.

I get things are bad. Yes. They. Are. But this is how it is and kicking the can down the road is exactly how we got where we are. Worse off, still trying to pretend we can continue on. At some point people will run out of ways to plug the dyke and they have sold their boat down the river.

I don't know that I disagree with you. One nitpick - my reference to depression was economic. Not personal.

[WisconsinWildcard]

Was told today by our hospital admin that vaccine should start for staff on the 15th if everything goes as planned. I am designated in the first group in the plan so should get it pretty soon (basically after the ICU/Emergency and respiratory teams)...which will be nice since I saw so many Covid+ patients this week.

[Swansong]

Was told today by our hospital admin that vaccine should start for staff on the 15th if everything goes as planned. I am designated in the first group in the plan so should get it pretty soon (basically after the ICU/Emergency and respiratory teams)...which will be nice since I saw so many Covid+ patients this week.

That's great! We're targeting 12/13 as a "ready date" and hoping for 12/15 as an actual "first administration" date.

[Kepler]

Was told today by our hospital admin that vaccine should start for staff on the 15th if everything goes as planned. I am designated in the first group in the plan so should get it pretty soon (basically after the ICU/Emergency and respiratory teams)...which will be nice since I saw so many Covid+ patients this week.

Excuse a stupid question, but does it kill it if it's in you, prevent you from getting it, or mitigate the effects if you get it?