SCOTUS 13: Confirmation consternation contemplation

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: SCOTUS 13: Confirmation consternation contemplation

The heavy drinking wouldn't be an issue if he doesn't categorically said he didn't do it.

He said he "sometimes had too many" and somtimes drank "in excess" when he was in HS or college. He doesn't categorically deny it that I can see. He denies blacking out. I haven't kept up with everything, but anyone said they ever saw him passed out from drinking for example? I believe one former classmate speculates he must have had memory losses, but... I don't know, I must have drank about one billion beers between the ages of 15-30. Could put away a case in a long evening, easy with no problem. Today I'm neither an alcoholic, (probably just lucky there) nor do I believe I've ever blacked out.

Of course that question... have you ever blacked out? It's really asking, do you ever remember what you don't remember? Kind of hard to nail somebody to the wall on.

[burd]

Re: SCOTUS 13: Confirmation consternation contemplation

He said he "sometimes had too many" and somtimes drank "in excess" when he was in HS or college. He doesn't categorically deny it that I can see. He denies blacking out. I haven't kept up with everything, but anyone said they ever saw him passed out from drinking for example? I believe one former classmate speculates he must have had memory losses, but... I don't know, I must have drank about one billion beers between the ages of 15-30. Could put away a case in a long evening, easy with no problem. Today I'm neither an alcoholic, (probably just lucky there) nor do I believe I've ever blacked out.

Of course that question... have you ever blacked out? It's really asking, do you ever remember what you don't remember? Kind of hard to nail somebody to the wall on.

People don't recall what happened while they were blacked out, but they definitely recall having blacked out. I had one evening as a college student when I woke up not knowing how or when I got home. I had driven, which scares me still, and apparently I was functioning pretty well. I don't remember what happened late that night, but I most definitely know I was blackout level drunk. Strunk.

That was a rare experience for me, which is even more reason to remember it.

[The Sicatoka]

Re: SCOTUS 13: Confirmation consternation contemplation

It also depends on the timing - maybe he really did give up that type of drinking in college. Background checks usually only seek out character references going back 5 or 10 years, so most of these allegations would be well off the radar for any recent checks.

He served in the GWB WH. That's say 15 years ago and they would've done a check to work in the WH especially in that role; so, push say 10 before that. That's 25 years ago. He's early 50s now. That'd come ... close ... to his end of law school years. What's all that prove. Not much. Interesting thought exercise, but it doesn't prove much.

[The Sicatoka]

Re: SCOTUS 13: Confirmation consternation contemplation

Back to pretending you know how background checks work?

I've only been through security clearances.

[The Rube]

Re: SCOTUS 13: Confirmation consternation contemplation

People don't recall what happened while they were blacked out, but they definitely recall having blacked out. I had one evening as a college student when I woke up not knowing how or when I got home. I had driven, which scares me still, and apparently I was functioning pretty well. I don't remember what happened late that night, but I most definitely know I was blackout level drunk. Strunk.

That was a rare experience for me, which is even more reason to remember it.

Now, here's a question: do they remember blacking out only because they don't remember what happened the night before? Or do they just realize, "Oh, hey, I must have blacked out, because I don't remember a thing?" (note: this is more philosophical of a take than anything)

[jerphisch]

Re: SCOTUS 13: Confirmation consternation contemplation

I've only been through security clearances.

Yes, you've demonstrated your thorough knowledge of clearances in the past.

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: SCOTUS 13: Confirmation consternation contemplation

People don't recall what happened while they were blacked out, but they definitely recall having blacked out. I had one evening as a college student when I woke up not knowing how or when I got home. I had driven, which scares me still, and apparently I was functioning pretty well. I don't remember what happened late that night, but I most definitely know I was blackout level drunk. Strunk.

That was a rare experience for me, which is even more reason to remember it.

Ok that makes sense. But for myself, I drank A LOT as a young man. My 18th birthday, my older brother tried to murder me through alcohol poisoning, as was the custom. I remember even today, quite clearly, falling down and laying in the lawn on the way to my house, and thinking I could just stay there, but I probably really should get up and go in the house to avoid the mocking and harrassment I was sure to suffer the next day should I stay there. So I got up and went in. I have just never had that experience that I didn't remember what happened. Maybe it's one of those things that if you have had it, you have a hard time believing someone else hasn't and vice versa. I don't know. Maybe I'll drink 40 beers Friday and see what happens, just to be sure!

[burd]

Re: SCOTUS 13: Confirmation consternation contemplation

Now, here's a question: do they remember blacking out only because they don't remember what happened the night before? Or do they just realize, "Oh, hey, I must have blacked out, because I don't remember a thing?" (note: this is more philosophical of a take than anything)

If they lived and drank alone on a desert island, they may not know they were that drunk.

[The Rube]

Re: SCOTUS 13: Confirmation consternation contemplation

I have a terrible memory overall. I remember random things, as most people do, I think. I might have forgotten an event, then someone says a key thing, and it's "Oh yeah! I remember that!" There was only one time I truly blacked out, gee it was in college (imagine that!). Thankfully, I had friends that made sure I was safe. Honestly, that scared the sh* outta me.

Edit: burd: good point. No frame of reference.

[Handyman]

Re: SCOTUS 13: Confirmation consternation contemplation

So are we now to believe that his classmates at Yale are part of the left wing conspiracy?

[The Rube]

Re: SCOTUS 13: Confirmation consternation contemplation

So are we now to believe that his classmates at Yale are part of the left wing conspiracy?

That conspiracy bullsh*....ugh.

[unofan]

The one thing that's bugging me...the angle that he's a heavy drinker obviously means he committed the assault because he was blackout drunk/etc. I have known a couple alcoholics, and they never assaulted women. They just got really drunk. Just because one thing is true, doesn't mean the other is true. The alcohol might have accelerated the decision to assault Ford, but that wouldn't be the booze's fault. That would be on him and his attitude/thinking/etc in the first place.

That being said, if he has/had that kind of problem, I'd look at that nomination again, but that would be a separate issue.

It's not that drinking = sexual assault, it's that lying about drinking = lying about sexual assault. Not to mention lying under oath, regardless of subject matter, is itself a crime.

It's the cover up that gets you every time.

[The Rube]

Re: SCOTUS 13: Confirmation consternation contemplation

It's not that drinking = sexual assault, it's that lying about drinking = lying about sexual assault. Not to mention lying under oath, regardless of subject matter, is itself a crime.

It's the cover up that gets you every time.

Not necessarily. One could be a drunk, an a*hole, a racist, etc, but there may be a line that that person DOESN'T cross, you know? Look at some lifers in prison. They've murdered, they've raped, they've robbed, but put a pedophile in their company? That pedo is gonna be whupped. Doesn't mean the lifer is a good person, it just means that that is a line that they won't cross.

[unofan]

Of course that question... have you ever blacked out? It's really asking, do you ever remember what you don't remember? Kind of hard to nail somebody to the wall on.

I did once. Scared the shiat out of me. Never let it happen again. Didn't pass out, crawled into bed like any other night. Just couldn't remember a freaking thing after a certain point in the night.

You know it when you've done it, and other people know it when it happens to a friend.

[burd]

Re: SCOTUS 13: Confirmation consternation contemplation

I did once. Scared the shiat out of me. Never let it happen again. Didn't pass out, crawled into bed like any other night. Just couldn't remember a freaking thing after a certain point in the night.

You know it when you've done it, and other people know it when it happens to a friend.

Exactly.