The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

They could move it to the Calgary run--some of us talked about that as a possibility.

Don't they usually do test competitions or World Cup runs on these tracks before the Olympics to be certain of their safety?

I think that would be perfectly fine if it's ok with the athletes.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

Track designers push the envelope just as athletes do. That's how you go faster, higher, stronger. It's the path of human progress, and some people DO die as collateral damage.

We can argue about placement of unpadded poles and barriers and other hazards, but the fact remains that these sports are designed to be seriously dangerous from day 1.

I can see no reason for unpadded steel posts to be set where the human body could possibly fly. He didn't die because of the speed of the track. He didn't die because of the daredevil level of the sport. He died because of a complete disregard for safety and physics. If there had been plexiglass walls along that corridor (for instance) like a hockey rink and no exposed poles sitting there he would have lived. You can't have any part of the human body riding at those speeds and then have them able to run into something that causes them to come to a complete stop instantly with no give. Ridiculous.

[state of hockey]

Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

If you want to see the incident you can on buzzfeed. There is a YouTube video that does not show it, but links it. I copied the link, but am thinking twice about posting it.

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

If you want to see the incident you can on buzzfeed. There is a YouTube video that does not show it, but links it. I copied the link, but am thinking twice about posting it.

I captured the video from the live feed back before I knew he died.

[Puck Swami]

Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

Don't they usually do test competitions or World Cup runs on these tracks before the Olympics to be certain of their safety?

They do test runs, but there can't be any track that you can be "certain of safety"

In the tracks at Calgary and Lake Placid, the make you sign a four page waiver that says "DEATH" in capital letters about five or six times times even to take a tourist ride down the track at about 40-60 mph. These guys are going much faster than that.

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

They do test runs, but there can't be any track that you can be "certain of safety"

In the tracks at Calgary and Lake Placid, the make you sign a four page waiver that says "DEATH" in capital letters about five or six times times even to take a tourist ride down the track at about 40-60 mph. These guys are going much faster than that.

You're getting safe confused with responsible. And there's an ocean of difference between those two. Luge tracks are not safe. this one was not safe and not responsible

This isn't anything against you personally, just my opinion

[Priceless]

Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

Nice of SportsCenter to steal borrow from the Dan Patrick Show yet again. They're discussing which was the bigger upset: The Miracle on Ice or Mike Tyson losing to Buster Douglas.

[Puck Swami]

Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

You're getting safe confused with responsible. And there's an ocean of difference between those two. Luge tracks are not safe. this one was not safe and not responsible

This isn't anything against you personally, just my opinion

I know that there is no such thing as safe, but what is the defnition of 'responsible' in a daredevil sport where the threat of death drives the intrinsic appeal of the sport? Can responsible be really be defined?

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

I know that there is no such thing as safe, but what is the defnition of 'responsible' in a daredevil sport where the threat of death drives the intrinsic appeal of the sport? Can responsible be really be defined?

Can it be explicitly defined? Probably not. It's amorphous. But when athletes are complaining about their safety, the best athletes in the world and know what they're talking about... well, maybe there's a problem then.

And when it's in a sport as dangerous as the luge, the problem becomes far more magnified.

[state of hockey]

Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

I know that there is no such thing as safe, but what is the defnition of 'responsible' in a daredevil sport where the threat of death drives the intrinsic appeal of the sport? Can responsible be really be defined?

No, but a start might be not having huge pillars right next to the track for a human body going 80mph to catapult into.

Padding wouldn't have done a dang thing, the pillars being there was/is the problem.

[BoomGoestheDynamite]

Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

I know that there is no such thing as safe, but what is the defnition of 'responsible' in a daredevil sport where the threat of death drives the intrinsic appeal of the sport? Can responsible be really be defined?

Negligence as a legal standard frequently uses the idea of a "reasonable person (IOC as a corporate person here)" to determine when someone breached a duty.

[Old Pio]

Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

It's always a sad thing when a young person loses his life, especially in a situation where it seems so obvious what could have been done to prevent the tragedy. But is it all that obvious?

This track took considerable time to design and build. One assume those responsible consulted with the sports federations, the IOC and others who have designed and built courses. After construction and before the games countless inspections, measurements and test runs were conducted. There were literally tens of thousands of opportunities to discover a fatal flaw in the track, yet none was. This track isn't a carnival ride, put up tonight in time for the opening of the fair tomorrow.

I don't know if any competitions have been held on the track but there have certainly been numerous training runs. The track is fast, very fast. Yet as far as we know nobody suggested or demanded that Curve 13 posed an unusal or significant safety problem. And, at least so far, we havenl't heard about anyone demanding the particular pole involved needed to be padded.

Given the intense attention an $87 million dollar project cutomarily gets, particularly in the run up to an Olympics, I can only conclude that the reason why nobody demanded the padding on that particular pole is that they didn't think it was necessary. And we're not talking about civilians here. We're talking about athletes, coaches, trainers, designers and officials, all of whom were familiar with this track and none of whom apparantly saw a problem with the fatal pole.

And I'm confident that if somebody had raised the issue, the organizing committee would have fixed the problem. And if the sliders from the various events were convinced there was a safety problem it would have been a simple matter to threaten a boycott, issue a press release, and invite the media to listen to their concerns. I can't rule out the existance of a smoking gun document (sort of like Roger Beujolais (sp) telling NASA not to launch the Challenger) but absent that, I recommend we pause a moment before jumping to conclusions about who's responsible, who should pay and throwing around legal terms like negligence. One of the less attractive aspects of life in America these days is that we seem to want to head to the courhouse before we really know what happened and why.

Over the years the IOC has tried to keep from competing athletes who may be overmatched. Several Olympics ago the world was intrigued by Eddie the Eagle, the British ski jumper who was clearly outclassed, but plucky. The problem is, plucky can get you seriously injured or killed. That's why Eddie the Eagle would no longer be allowed to compete. I have no idea about the comptetance of the young man who was killed, but he evidently didn't have as much time on this course as desireable. Tragically, it's possible, the young man may have been overmatched by this course. We'll probably learn more in the coming days. Remember, the IOC does not conduct the competitions. The competitions are run by the various sports federations. Think of an Olympic Winter Games as a simultaneous world championship of all the winter sports, at one place and time.

Under any circumstances, this is a sad, sad day for this young man and his family, the Georgian Olympic team and the games in general.

[Dirty]

Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

Well this piece makes it more difficult to call the Canucks Canucks and pretend we hate them.

Though that last line about Canadians being modest and not hardcore supporters of their country is a joke. Tom Brokaw has obviously never watched Team Canada play hockey.

[bigblue_dl]

Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

Well this piece makes it more difficult to call the Canucks Canucks and pretend we hate them.

Though that last line about Canadians being modest and not hardcore supporters of their country is a joke. Tom Brokaw has obviously never watched Team Canada play hockey.

nah, we can still hate them, just think of Patrice Cormier

[BadgerAlum@WMU]

Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

Well this piece makes it more difficult to call the Canucks Canucks and pretend we hate them.

Though that last line about Canadians being modest and not hardcore supporters of their country is a joke. Tom Brokaw has obviously never watched Team Canada play hockey.

He also said that Prime Minister Stephen Harper went in front of Parliament to ask Canadians to be patriotic and wave the Maple Leaf. Problem? Parliament has been prorogued since December 30th and won't resume operations until March.