The Medical Thread: We're experts on everything else; why not?

[Swansong]

I can personally attest to the extreme difficulty getting things approved for covid complications. Basically four MRIs and it was a nightmare to get peer approvals. This will be a nightmare for years.

oh and still no explanation for my issues

Pfft. You're letting it dominate you. If you were stronger and Trump was still president, you'd be fine.

[SJHovey]

Your point?

Well, the post you quoted was in response to rufus who wrote something like "socialize needs, privatize wants." My point was this.

First, people are quick to include healthcare in the "needs" category, like somehow it's written into the Magna Carta or something as some sort of basic human right. I don't necessarily agree with that, but I recognize opinions may differ. I've always viewed it as a quality of life issue.

My second point was that if we want to get into the "wants vs needs" debate in terms of socialization, I think there are things that human beings "need" way more than they need healthcare, such as food, water, and shelter (maybe even include clothing in that). We socialize water, at least for a good chunk of the population, but I think that was done more out of practicality than out of a decision that water is a basic human right or need.

But we haven't done it for food or shelter, and I'm not sure we should. Again, I believe that "socially" we can do things to help or assist those who need it, but I don't think it just works for us to decide that government is now going to provide all food and shelter to us, paid for by the collective. But again, just my opinion.

[ScoobyDoo]

Well, the post you quoted was in response to rufus who wrote something like "socialize needs, privatize wants." My point was this.

First, people are quick to include healthcare in the "needs" category, like somehow it's written into the Magna Carta or something as some sort of basic human right. I don't necessarily agree with that, but I recognize opinions may differ. I've always viewed it as a quality of life issue.

My second point was that if we want to get into the "wants vs needs" debate in terms of socialization, I think there are things that human beings "need" way more than they need healthcare, such as food, water, and shelter (maybe even include clothing in that). We socialize water, at least for a good chunk of the population, but I think that was done more out of practicality than out of a decision that water is a basic human right or need.

But we haven't done it for food or shelter, and I'm not sure we should. Again, I believe that "socially" we can do things to help or assist those who need it, but I don't think it just works for us to decide that government is now going to provide all food and shelter to us, paid for by the collective. But again, just my opinion.

This coming from the party that socializes losses and privatizes profits.

[psych]

Well, the post you quoted was in response to rufus who wrote something like "socialize needs, privatize wants." My point was this.

First, people are quick to include healthcare in the "needs" category, like somehow it's written into the Magna Carta or something as some sort of basic human right. I don't necessarily agree with that, but I recognize opinions may differ. I've always viewed it as a quality of life issue.

My second point was that if we want to get into the "wants vs needs" debate in terms of socialization, I think there are things that human beings "need" way more than they need healthcare, such as food, water, and shelter (maybe even include clothing in that). We socialize water, at least for a good chunk of the population, but I think that was done more out of practicality than out of a decision that water is a basic human right or need.

But we haven't done it for food or shelter, and I'm not sure we should. Again, I believe that "socially" we can do things to help or assist those who need it, but I don't think it just works for us to decide that government is now going to provide all food and shelter to us, paid for by the collective. But again, just my opinion.

You never answered my question about what parts of healthcare you think should be socialized. Here, I’ll start off: I want health insurance for everyone to include substance abuse “coverage” that goes beyond the days it takes to merely sober them up. The ACA started the process, but it’s wholly inadequate. What’s more infuriating than that, though, is shelter as one of the basic needs. Our housing system is the worst of any of the social safety nets. Wholly inadequate. There isn’t nearly enough affordable low-income* housing. Section 8 is effective for the people it’s funded and allowed to serve, but there isn’t nearly enough Section 8 housing to go around, and that goes double for blue states and blue areas (the NIMBY liberals). Dozens of patients at my hospital are homeless, so even if they get sober, who the **** wants to be sober and homeless?

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Yeah, nobody really needs healthcare. Just man up and put some superglue on it, ask the Lord for deliverance, and/or self-medicate like a REAL 'Murican.

[St. Clown]

Yeah, nobody really needs healthcare. Just man up and put some superglue on it, ask the Lord for deliverance, and/or self-medicate like a REAL 'Murican.

When I had appendicitis as a child, I only wanted my appendix removed because it proved inconvenient. It’s not like there was any harm in letting the thing dangle there.

[SJHovey]

You never answered my question about what parts of healthcare you think should be socialized. Here, I’ll start off: I want health insurance for everyone to include substance abuse “coverage” that goes beyond the days it takes to merely sober them up. The ACA started the process, but it’s wholly inadequate. What’s more infuriating than that, though, is shelter as one of the basic needs. Our housing system is the worst of any of the social safety nets. Wholly inadequate. There isn’t nearly enough affordable low-income* housing. Section 8 is effective for the people it’s funded and allowed to serve, but there isn’t nearly enough Section 8 housing to go around, and that goes double for blue states and blue areas (the NIMBY liberals). Dozens of patients at my hospital are homeless, so even if they get sober, who the **** wants to be sober and homeless?

I didn't initially see your question.

Personally I'd see that those who really aren't capable of paying for their own medical care are covered. Children, for instance, or special needs individuals. People like that. Then, a safety net of coverage for those who might be in a more financially precarious position, like the elderly. So, in general, I support the medicare and medicaid programs as our socialized care.

[Kepler]

Personally I'd see that those who really aren't capable of paying for their own medical care are covered.

So, like, the poor?

[Jimjamesak]

So, like, the poor?

Given the costs of health care, 90% of the country?

[Kepler]

Given the costs of health care, 90% of the country?

That just tells me we need wealth redistribution.

[SJHovey]

So, like, the poor?

No, not necessarily.

[SJHovey]

That just tells me we need wealth redistribution.

Healthcare is too expensive because of the system we created for it. It's paid for, in substantial part, by third parties. Through a combination of marketing and fear we have created a system of over-treatment. And we have, through the bureaucracy of the system of payments and reporting, imposed upon healthcare providers the need to have a bloated support staff.

[RaceBoarder]

Healthcare is too expensive because of the system we created for it. It's paid for, in substantial part, by third parties. Through a combination of marketing and fear we have created a system of over-treatment. And we have, through the bureaucracy of the system of payments and reporting, imposed upon healthcare providers the need to have a bloated support staff.

This is the main problem.

Why is it that when a procedure is done bills will show the procedure as costing $5000, but insurance gets a $3400 discount and pays $1600. It's BS. Two very different prices for the EXACT same thing.

[Swansong]

This is the main problem.

Why is it that when a procedure is done bills will show the procedure as costing $5000, but insurance gets a $3400 discount and pays $1600. It's BS. Two very different prices for the EXACT same thing.

The "over-treatment" is, by and large, a requirement by the payers. A huge percentage of hospital overhead is spent on administrative work, ensuring treatment is deemed appropriate to avoid risking claim denials. Ask a clinical case manager how much of their time is spent going between doctor and insurance company to convince the insurance company to pay for a necessary treatment?

[SJHovey]

The "over-treatment" is, by and large, a requirement by the payers. A huge percentage of hospital overhead is spent on administrative work, ensuring treatment is deemed appropriate to avoid risking claim denials. Ask a clinical case manager how much of their time is spent going between doctor and insurance company to convince the insurance company to pay for a necessary treatment?

Probably about 10 years ago or so I was having dinner at an event with a family practice doctor who is part of the Mayo Clinic system here in Minnesota. As we were talking and I learned more about his background, he told me how when he got out of medical school a number of years before with his wife (also a family practice doctor), the two of them joined with two classmates to form a small family practice clinic, something they had always wanted to do, sort of a "be your own boss" thing. He said he loved it, and he'd go back to those days in a heartbeat if he could.

I asked him why he and his wife left. He said that at the time they formed the clinic, they could operate with 2.5 back of the house employees per doctor, filling out claim forms, etc... Within about 5 or 6 years they were up to something like 7 back of the house people per doctor. It simply wasn't economically feasible.