POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

[alfablue]

Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

One of those things everybody knows must be true... so it's the kind of thing I tend to question.

2010 Census has the following US Demographics:

White- 63.7%

Black -12.2%

Hispanic/Latino - 16.3%

Asian - 4.7%

The National Center for Education Statistics has the following Demographic breakdown for 2014 students enrolled in college:

White- 58%

Black- 14%

Hispanic/Latino - 17%

Asian- 7%

So if that's correct, it seems like minorities are a little over represented and whites a little under.

So since that's a fact, since Wisconsin is not even 3% African American, that's not a problem. Or just over 2% hispanic. No big deal.

That data is kind of misleading, as it is a sum of all schools, and many of the big schools are not even close to that. Kind of like how separate but equal is ok. When it isn't.

[alfablue]

Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

That's why I said "mostly."

And that is also why I ask, in a serious tone, not a mocking one (as Trump did), where is the line? Honest question. Are there other memorials/statues that will be torn down in the future? If so, who and why? Are there "untouchables?" If so, why? Do certain people get a pass because of the position they held, or level of importance in American history? What if they were all the racist for a while, then changed their views?

I really would like to hear people's input. It's a sticky and difficult subject to discuss for obvious reasons, but IMO, it needs to be discussed. I mentioned earlier, and I agreed with you, that Lake Calhoun's name change was silly (for those not in the know, a local lake was reverted back to the Native American name, because of Calhoun's racism). I don't think this practice will end, but there will be a line drawn. I am curious as to where everyone thinks society will draw that line?

A lot of this needs to be put into context.

If Lee has a statue at Washington and Lee, put up for his efforts there, just after his death- that should stay. That was a lot of good he did. But to honor his war record- with all fo the questions around it (was he for or against slavery, he was as US general who changed sides, etc)- that would be a misplaced honor.

And the intent of the monument needs to be known, too. If there's a monument to soldiers who died- a statue of lee is stupid. He didn't even come close to sacrificing his life.

Context and reason matters.

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

Still a classic:

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

This all comes out in negotiation between the different groups in our country. Each of our lines will be different -- the national consensus will be the line, and it will always be fluid. Popular sovereignty is messy, but it's the best system we have so far.

Agree with you and alfa as far as fluidity and context. You can post your PERSONAL views, I won't ask you to. How far do you think our SOCIETY will go, in general? There will always be some detractors, no matter what, it's the nature of the beast.

[trixR4kids]

Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

HAHAHAHA

https://twitter.com/mattdpearce/stat...49810231623680

[mookie1995]

Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

HAHAHAHA

https://twitter.com/mattdpearce/stat...49810231623680

a sense of humor is often the best weapon to carry

[mookie1995]

Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

So since that's a fact, since Wisconsin is not even 3% African American, that's not a problem. Or just over 2% hispanic. No big deal.

That data is kind of misleading, as it is a sum of all schools, and many of the big schools are not even close to that. Kind of like how separate but equal is ok. When it isn't.

what are the #s at spelman, howard, and morehouse?

do the populations of states define how much a "U of" should allow? or since those tend to rake in the federal funding should then be representative of the country's pop?

i'd prefer U Wisconsin and U Michigan to follow the country's. admissions should try to replicate the country, yes. proportional future leaders should be educated to move into the part of society that leads through business, education, etc. important first step here to try and funnel these folks into those roles.

[mookie1995]

Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

This all comes out in negotiation between the different groups in our country. Each of our lines will be different -- the national consensus will be the line, and it will always be fluid. Popular sovereignty is messy, but it's the best system we have so far.

so a national decree? not a states decision?

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

Agree with you and alfa as far as fluidity and context. You can post your PERSONAL views, I won't ask you to. How far do you think our SOCIETY will go, in general? There will always be some detractors, no matter what, it's the nature of the beast.

I think it will continue to move in the direction of letting more people have their say. That's what the jackwagons who voted for Trump are angry about. In their ideal 50s Amerika blacks and women and non-Christians didn't count; their opinions and concerns were trivialized and ignored or even laughed at. Now they are fully engaged and fully respected equal citizens, and these dumbf-cks are crying that their privilege is gone.

White Christian males used to give the rest of us permission to speak; when they decided they'd heard enough or we were being "inappropriate" or "divisive" they called in the cops to break our heads. Now we're saying, "go f-ck yourself, we don't need your permission." And that gives them the sads.

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

I think it will continue to move in the direction of letting more people have their say. That's what the jackwagons who voted for Trump are angry about. In their ideal 50s Amerika blacks and women and non-Christians didn't count; their opinions and concerns were trivialized and ignored or even laughed at. Now they are fully engaged and fully respected equal citizens, and these dumbf-cks are crying that their privilege is gone.

White Christian males used to give the rest of us permission to speak; when they decided they'd heard enough or we were being "inappropriate" or "divisive" they called in the cops to break our heads. Now we're saying, "go f-ck yourself, we don't need your permission." And that gives them the sads.

That is a well thought out post, but doesn't answer the question. The underlined is my question. How far do you think the people will go? Not you specifically, but the gen pop?

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

so a national decree? not a states decision?

That's not the way to look at it. This is nothing different than the way it was before -- it was always negotiated. The difference now is more people are being heard who didn't matter before. Most of the people who are worried about the statues don't give a sh-t about statues, they care that the old world order their fathers and pastors promised them is disappearing. In that world, if they were "normal" (white, Christian, straight) then they owned this country. We who didn't fit that model were deviants who they permitted to have rights out of noblesse oblige. In return, we were supposed to be grateful and respect their final decisions which they made for the good of everyone.

That crumbled through the middle of this century in the cities and the universities, and then in the late 20th C in the corporations, but it was still the mindset in the country and in the nutbar churches. Now it's crumbling there -- even their children see it as racist, sexist garbage unless they're completely braindead. Modernity is finally catching up with the deadenders, and they are responding exactly like the deadenders in the Middle East: with violence and bizarre fundamentalist religious bullsh-t, but mostly with hatred and eyes screwed so shut with intolerance their heads are 'sploding. This is American ISIS. It has its own TV network and its own president, but just like the other ISIS it's completely inept and insipid, partly because it attracts by definition only the most stupid, but also because there is no future in its fantasies. It is feeding on something already dead and decaying.

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

That is a well thought out post, but doesn't answer the question. The underlined is my question. How far do you think the people will go? Not you specifically, but the gen pop?

By when? There is no endpoint, it just keeps changing, forever. The changes come from technology and historical events and, if you're a Hegelian (I'm not) from the gradual spooling out of History as a sort of organic creature.

The question you're asking doesn't really make sense. People aren't "going" anywhere. They're always trying to bring things into true with where they already are. Institutions and traditions (and statues) are literal reifications of culture, so they are always lagging indicators.

It's like somebody saying in 1915 "today society wants to give women the vote. How far will it go? Where will it end?" The answer is it will go where people want it to go: we are not forever stuck with the culture of the past, we do not live suffocated by skeletons and trapped in tombs. As for where it will end, it won't as long as we keep the species going. There is no end, there's just a perpetual evolution of culture in reaction to its circumstances, physical, intellectual, technological, etc.

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

You're upset because you figured Bannon would find a way to hang on.

Marines don't like it when you break ranks. Bannon had to go.

I am upset? Just because you predict something obvious, that lots of other people are predicting, and you get it right doesnt make you the genius you pretend you are mmmkay. Putting money on the favorite doesnt make you smart...

[mookie1995]

Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

read where the indians (dot) and chinese did some actual fighting in their border skirmish... albeit with rocks and clubs, but there was still interaction between the two.

[Slap Shot]

Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

Ok, so you can bury your head in the sand all you want.

There's more than enough going on that people want to take legal rights away from other people just because of who they are. First of all, that has to be stopped at all costs. But if you continue to just let if go unchecked, this will get ugly.

You don't seem to want to nip this in the bud just because our economy is better than Germany. That's it. BFD.

Nothing I've posted signifies I've buried my head in the sand and I'm well aware of the attempts of these aholes to take away the rights of others. Also nothing I've said equates to, "not wanting to nip this in the bud" but rather I simply think you need to temper the hyperbole. It's not going unchecked btw as there are plenty of people far and wide calling these aholes out as the racist pricks they are and I hope the opposition remains loud and proud. For the last time we're nowhere near the conditions of 1930's Germany and there's nothing you can point to that makes the situations remotely similar outside your imagination.