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POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

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  • Originally posted by rufus View Post
    Where are the memorials to the Nazis here in the US? In Germany?
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    • Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

      Originally posted by alfablue View Post
      IMHO, you are mistaking history, and the forgiveness of time to honoring people who were losers.

      Some like to think the statues represent history. And in some aspects they do. But the history could probably be better shown in a simple marker, perhaps with some of the names of the dead.

      Instead, the statues are there to make us think that the confederate generals were some kind of hero. They are not. They were just part of a losing battle.

      I've seen Lee's efforts washed over here and on other boards- after the war he was some kind of gentleman, or that he was just fighting for Virginia, bla bla bla.

      Which is to suggest that he fought for the wrong side in the war, as he was against slavery.

      It would be interesting to ask the thousands of dead confederate soldiers he commanded into death about that line of thinking. Or the thousands of Union soldiers that died due to his command the same thing.

      The man was a key part in 300,000 people killed in the Civil war. Had he fought for the north, perhaps less would have died, and the separation between the north and south would not be nearly has harsh, as the war would have ended a lot sooner.

      But he didn't. He fought for the side that every single goal pointed to keeping slavery to make people rich. Killed a lot of people. And lost. How does that make him a hero or a gentleman?
      When Lee's army invaded the North, they captured free blacks on the way to/from Gettysburg and took them back to VA to be sold into slavery. He also only freed the slaves at Arlington House because he was obligated to abide by the terms of his father-in-law's will.

      Says all we need to know about his positions on the issue.

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      • Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

        Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post
        You are a complete and utter moron if you think I'm defending a racist symbol.
        No, you're just defending a symbol that stands for "laid-back, good ole boy style of living". Like Skynrd, and Dukes of Hazard.
        What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

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        • Originally posted by unofan View Post
          Malcolm X frowns on your shenanigans.

          And let's not forget that there was an entire farking war fought over the issue of slavery. So now you're saying the Union was just as bad as the Confederacy?
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          • Originally posted by rufus View Post
            Where are the memorials to the Nazis here in the US? In Germany?

            Where are there even statues to German soldiers and scientists here in the US? Maybe there's some of Einstein, but who else?

            We read the writings of Confederate soldiers and generals too. But what have they really done to deserve any honor, other than to take up arms in a rebellion against their country?
            There's a whole bunch of Von Braun stuff. I think Achtung! Panzer is still read by armor officers. If you want to read the writings of a demented mind, Mein Kampf is still sold in bookstores (who gets the royalties?).

            Outside of WvB, I don't know of any memorials, but we can read a lot of stuff by members of Nazi Germany. Do you want to ban/burn offensive books because they offer views offensive to you?
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            • Originally posted by unofan View Post
              Malcolm X frowns on your shenanigans.

              And let's not forget that there was an entire farking war fought over the issue of slavery. So now you're saying the Union was just as bad as the Confederacy?
              War is the abandonment of morality. You fight to win and not get killed. The March To The Sea and the destruction of the Shannendoah Valley were, as Cromwell put it, "Brutal Necessity".

              But non violent protest won the day in the 60s. Let's remember that.
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              5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
              1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

              ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
              - Benjamin Franklin

              Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

              I want to live forever. So far, so good.

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              • Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

                Put there by the American Nazi Party. White supremacists.
                What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

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                • Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

                  Originally posted by joecct View Post
                  There's a whole bunch of Von Braun stuff. I think Achtung! Panzer is still read by armor officers. If you want to read the writings of a demented mind, Mein Kampf is still sold in bookstores (who gets the royalties?).

                  Outside of WvB, I don't know of any memorials, but we can read a lot of stuff by members of Nazi Germany. Do you want to ban/burn offensive books because they offer views offensive to you?
                  Again, who's talking about banning/burning books? Oh, the false equivalency beast rears its ugly head again.

                  Someone earlier posted about the statues and how they couldn't care less about them. Neither could I.

                  But someone else also posted that these memorials are no longer about history, or remembrance, or honoring historic figures. They're about icons for racist people and groups to rally around, and propagate their vile message. And if that's their sole purpose in today's society, then there really is no need to have them there.
                  What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

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                  • Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

                    Originally posted by rufus View Post
                    Again, who's talking about banning/burning books? Oh, the false equivalency beast rears its ugly head again.

                    Someone earlier posted about the statues and how they couldn't care less about them. Neither could I.

                    But someone else also posted that these memorials are no longer about history, or remembrance, or honoring historic figures. They're about icon for racist people and groups to rally around, and propagate their vile message. And if that's their sole purpose in today's society, then there really is no need to have them there.
                    That's the problem. They were put there as an icon for racist people in the first place. Period. There would be no other reason for someone who committed treason to have a statue erected of them in the country where the treason was committed. None.

                    Statues gotta go.
                    **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

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                    • Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

                      Originally posted by rufus View Post
                      But someone else also posted that these memorials are no longer about history, or remembrance, or honoring historic figures. They're about icon for racist people and groups to rally around, and propagate their vile message. And if that's their sole purpose in today's society, then there really is no need to have them there.
                      The statues were never about history, or remembrance, or honoring historic figures. Look at when they were built--during the height of Jim Crow and during the Civil Rights Movement of the 1950's and 60's.
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                      • Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

                        Originally posted by Fighting Sioux 23 View Post
                        The statues were never about history, or remembrance, or honoring historic figures. Look at when they were built--during the height of Jim Crow and during the Civil Rights Movement of the 1950's and 60's.
                        ^^^^^^^^^^^
                        **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                        Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                        Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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                        • Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

                          Originally posted by joecct View Post
                          War is the abandonment of morality. You fight to win and not get killed. The March To The Sea and the destruction of the Shannendoah Valley were, as Cromwell put it, "Brutal Necessity".

                          But non violent protest won the day in the 60s. Let's remember that.
                          We remember because it was liberals who led the civil rights marches. And it was conservatives who fought us every step saying it was "too soon" or "divisive" or "outsider agitation."

                          And then, fifty years later, the instant the GOP was able to roll back the Voting Rights Act, the same chuckleheads and their children came right back.

                          As was said before: all Republicans aren't active racists. But racism isn't a deal breaker for them. Until that changes the right in this country has no moral credibility.
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                          • Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

                            There's a graph out there - the vast majority of these monuments went up between 1910 and 1970. Heck, a few were built after 2000.

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                            • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                              As was said before: all Republicans aren't active racists.
                              This is nails on a chalk board to the grammar Nazi in me (pun intended).

                              Taken literally, you just said that none of them are racists. The correct phrasing is "Not all Republicans are racists."

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                              • Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

                                Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                                I said that 5 minutes after his candidacy announcement. No one listened.
                                Pretty sure Kep and I did
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