Illinois is broke(n) ...

[Jimjamesak]

That's one point of view....set in the context of the times, the clause in the Illinois constitution made sense then because the state income tax was relatively new and a proposed increase in the income tax rate so soon after starting it in the first place generated a lot of debate.

The idea apparently was that if you make graduated rates unconstitutional, then the state would need to keep income tax rates low since everyone would be affected; and people had only grudgingly come to accept any state income tax at all in the first place.

At that time, most people viewed budgeting as: you start with the revenue you have and then figure out how to allocate it among competing priorities; it was not a popular view then that you make promises left and right to get elected, and then try to figure out where to find the money to pay for them.

I recall Richard M. Daley opposing a small social welfare program. He said, paraphrase, once you try to do something nice on a temporary basis to help out a few people in need, then pretty soon it gets viewed as a 'right' and everyone starts clamoring for it, and that blows your budget all to h^ll.

Cite your sources please.

[FreshFish]

Re: Illinois is broke(n) ...

That's why you don't place taxation or spending details into a state constitution. You write language that the state may levy taxes for its operation, but you don't state the method of that taxation. Those details are better left to the politicians living in the moment of need, to address what would best serve the State.

That's one point of view....set in the context of the times, the clause in the Illinois constitution made sense then because the state income tax was relatively new and a proposed increase in the income tax rate so soon after starting it in the first place generated a lot of debate.

The idea apparently was that if you make graduated rates unconstitutional, then the state would need to keep income tax rates low since everyone would be affected; and people had only grudgingly come to accept any state income tax at all in the first place.

At that time, most people viewed budgeting as: you start with the revenue you have and then figure out how to allocate it among competing priorities; it was not a popular view then that you make promises left and right to get elected, and then try to figure out where to find the money to pay for them.

I recall Richard M. Daley opposing a small social welfare program. He said, paraphrase, once you try to do something nice on a temporary basis to help out a few people in need, then pretty soon it gets viewed as a 'right' and everyone starts clamoring for it, and that blows your budget all to h^ll.

[Kepler]

Re: Illinois is broke(n) ...

Because the Illinois Democratic governors keep getting arrested? At a certain point, you're going to be willing to try the other side if he isn't a felon.

Fair point.

[bronconick]

Re: Illinois is broke(n) ...

Reading about Rauner, how did this jackas-s get elected in the first place? He's like Brownback. I expect that in KS, but IL?

Nice to see these chumps finally getting rolled back. Maybe ME will be next?

Because the Illinois Democratic governors keep getting arrested? At a certain point, you're going to be willing to try the other side if he isn't a felon.

[Rover]

Re: Illinois is broke(n) ...

Mass has the same issue. Not sure why that is but state taxes seem to be a flat rate unless you pass a constitutional amendment.

[St. Clown]

Re: Illinois is broke(n) ...

That is written into the state Constitution (ratified 1970), Article IX, Section 3(a):

That's why you don't place taxation or spending details into a state constitution. You write language that the state may levy taxes for its operation, but you don't state the method of that taxation. Those details are better left to the politicians living in the moment of need, to address what would best serve the State.

[FreshFish]

Re: Illinois is broke(n) ...

Illinois actually has a "flat" income tax. Their income tax is just something like four or five percent of your income, across the board. I think it's been that way for a long, long time.

That is written into the state Constitution (ratified 1970), Article IX, Section 3(a):

SECTION 3. LIMITATIONS ON INCOME TAXATION
(a) A tax on or measured by income shall be at a non-graduated rate. At any one time there may be no more than one such tax imposed by the State for State purposes on individuals and one such tax so imposed on corporations. In any such tax imposed upon corporations the rate shall not exceed the rate imposed on individuals by more than a ratio of 8 to 5.

[Drew S.]

Illinois is a classic example of how government goes off track when politicians refuse to make a tough political choice. That choice might be making cuts. It might be raising taxes. It might involve a combination of both, but if you're not willing to make those choices, you turn into Illinois.

My wife and I have good friends who ended up getting transferred to Illinois for about five years. I shuddered at the horror stories.

IIRC, Illinois actually has a "flat" income tax. Their income tax is just something like four or five percent of your income, across the board. I think it's been that way for a long, long time.

But, as the cost of running the government went up, rather than bump the tax what would only have to be a tiny percentage, instead they went to all of these innumerable fees and sales taxes that are much easier to pass. You want to drink your craft beer in a pint instead of a beer mug? They probably have a tax on that. You want water with your restaurant meal? They probably have a tax on that.

I was always struck by how severely regressive the Illinois tax system seemed to me, given that at least from my viewpoint it's been a pretty reliable "blue" state.

I couldn't agree more with this. It seems like in this century there has been no will at all to make tough decisions and those under say 40 are going to pay a heavy price down the road.

[SJHovey]

Re: Illinois is broke(n) ...

Illinois is a classic example of how government goes off track when politicians refuse to make a tough political choice. That choice might be making cuts. It might be raising taxes. It might involve a combination of both, but if you're not willing to make those choices, you turn into Illinois.

My wife and I have good friends who ended up getting transferred to Illinois for about five years. I shuddered at the horror stories.

IIRC, Illinois actually has a "flat" income tax. Their income tax is just something like four or five percent of your income, across the board. I think it's been that way for a long, long time.

But, as the cost of running the government went up, rather than bump the tax what would only have to be a tiny percentage, instead they went to all of these innumerable fees and sales taxes that are much easier to pass. You want to drink your craft beer in a pint instead of a beer mug? They probably have a tax on that. You want water with your restaurant meal? They probably have a tax on that.

I was always struck by how severely regressive the Illinois tax system seemed to me, given that at least from my viewpoint it's been a pretty reliable "blue" state.

[Rover]

Re: Illinois is broke(n) ...

Reading about Rauner, how did this jackas-s get elected in the first place? He's like Brownback. I expect that in KS, but IL?

Nice to see these chumps finally getting rolled back. Maybe ME will be next?

For reasons I don't understand every once in awhile people get caught up in the "we need to run gubmint like a business" crapola, and anybody who made money running a business even if it was a scam or due to inherited wealth can "straighten sh !t out". In reality very few businessmen make good governors because as a business owner or CEO you're used to telling people to jump and their response to be "how high?" or they're fired. You can't fire the leader of the opposition party so you either get a quagmire like Illinois or the guy starts stealing everything that's not nailed down like the last Gooper Gov in Virginia because again that's what you do on your way out the door in business.

[Kepler]

Re: Illinois is broke(n) ...

Reading about Rauner, how did this jackas-s get elected in the first place? He's like Brownback. I expect that in KS, but IL?

Nice to see these chumps finally getting rolled back. Maybe ME will be next?

[MissThundercat]

Illinois now has a budget.

[Drew S.]

Also, I love how the state is supposed to "rein in" spending, NOT raise taxes, and magically fill the massive pension shortfall.

Now, I may not have aced my accounting and finance classes, but if you are running a deficet even after cutting expenses, some income source needs to be found.

The problem at a state level is people can move. I'm not saying they shouldn't try to raise any extra revenue but there is only so far you can go.

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Illinois is broke(n) ...

Well, thank God we still have a stranglehold of the Chiraq moniker.

That's totally yours. Please own it.

[aparch]

Re: Illinois is broke(n) ...

Also, I love how the state is supposed to "rein in" spending, NOT raise taxes, and magically fill the massive pension shortfall.

Now, I may not have aced my accounting and finance classes, but if you are running a deficet even after cutting expenses, some income source needs to be found.