The Home Improvement Thread. Successes and Failures

[LynahFan]

I know better than to question your math, but there is a lot more than just shower use in terms of hot water.



I did not go with a tankless system when I needed to replace my heater last year, but it was more about the fact that the installation would have been crazy expensive for me as they'd have had to re-plumb my entire system. Right now my boiler and hot water heater are next to each other in the middle of the basement, next to the central chimney. Tankless systems must be installed on an external wall and vented, so I'd have had to run gas lines, all the plumbing and power to a part of the wall that doesn't have those things, plus I'd have to cut a hole in the wall for said vent.


Also, my hot water heater and boiler both went on the same day, so I was already facing a $NASA installation/equipment charge.

Exactly - and that's why they never pay. NA$A to install, and the "maintenance heat" that you save compared to all that usage (which I meant to point out that I was being very, very conservative on, especially in the teenage girl department) is vanishingly small.

If you want the luxury of unlimited hot water - pay NA$A and own it as a luxury item. Don't buy one thinking that you're cleverly beating the system and somehow saving money.

Edit to add: we're about to install one.

[dxmnkd316]

Edit to add: we're about to install one.

Gut laugh.

[walrus]

Plus tankless heaters are expensive to service.

[dxmnkd316]

One thing I saw that probably cuts water usage by at least double digits from Gen 1 TWHs was the recirc loop. TWHs take a bit to get up to temp, so you're basically just dumping water down the drain. Some come with a recirc loop (not sure how this works with regards to opening a tap and waiting) that gets the water up to temp and then sends it to the hot water header. Again, it's just one more pain in the *** thing to break and... Jeeze, I dunno man. I'd rather just buy a 12" thick bat of insulation than worry about 100 parts failing.

Too bad we can't just make these things out of hastelloy, make them vacuum insulated pressure vessels, and they'd outlast the cockroaches.

[dxmnkd316]

Plus tankless heaters are expensive to service.

Yeah, the nightmare stories I've seen where "Oh, part XYZ failed and you can't really service it so they make you send in your unit to prove it defective and they'll send you a new one". Given the supply chain issues now, I'm opting for simplicity. Or efficient and complicated with a simple backup (like keeping my non-smart thermostat in case the ecobee takes a dump).

[Swansong]

One thing I saw that probably cuts water usage by at least double digits from Gen 1 TWHs was the recirc loop. TWHs take a bit to get up to temp, so you're basically just dumping water down the drain. Some come with a recirc loop (not sure how this works with regards to opening a tap and waiting) that gets the water up to temp and then sends it to the hot water header. Again, it's just one more pain in the *** thing to break and... Jeeze, I dunno man. I'd rather just buy a 12" thick bat of insulation than worry about 100 parts failing.

Too bad we can't just make these things out of hastelloy, make them vacuum insulated pressure vessels, and they'd outlast the cockroaches.

I have no earthly idea what almost any of the words in this post mean, but I will say that my totally awesome, 1 year old 40 gallon hot water heater has what I think is the same problem you mention. Water in the pipes between the heater and the shower head cools off, and it takes a minute for piping hot water to work its way through the labyrinthine plumbing system.

[MarkEagleUSA]

Water in the pipes between the heater and the shower head cools off, and it takes a minute for piping hot water to work its way through the labyrinthine plumbing system.

Are your pipes insulated? Accessible? Foam pipe insulation will go a long way to helping that problem.

My shower is roughly 25' or so from the hot water tank in the unfinished basement. In winter the basement stays at about 68? since the main heating lines are 1-1/2 steel pipe that run down the center of the basement, so it's far from cold down there. We would have to wait 45-90 seconds to get shower-worthy hot water. Since I insulated the run (which is PEX tubing), hot water can usually be had in 15-30 seconds. Doesn't solve the problem but makes it a bunch easier to tolerate.

[Swansong]

Are your pipes insulated? Accessible? Foam pipe insulation will go a long way to helping that problem.

My shower is roughly 25' or so from the hot water tank in the unfinished basement. In winter the basement stays at about 68? since the main heating lines are 1-1/2 steel pipe that run down the center of the basement, so it's far from cold down there. We would have to wait 45-90 seconds to get shower-worthy hot water. Since I insulated the run (which is PEX tubing), hot water can usually be had in 15-30 seconds. Doesn't solve the problem but makes it a bunch easier to tolerate.

I still have some asbestos insulation down in the basement, but once it gets into the walls, it's an old house with horse hair plaster, so no insulation between the exterior walls and the plaster. The basement gets down as low as the low 60s.

I'd guess on average, it takes a good 1-2 minutes. Not really a complaint, I guess.

[MarkEagleUSA]

I still have some asbestos insulation down in the basement, but once it gets into the walls, it's an old house with horse hair plaster, so no insulation between the exterior walls and the plaster. The basement gets down as low as the low 60s.

I'd guess on average, it takes a good 1-2 minutes. Not really a complaint, I guess.

The joys of an older home. Fortunately I've remodeled the entire 1st floor over the last 10-15 years and was able to put proper insulation in the walls, and replace the old, drafty doors and windows.

[dxmnkd316]

So the plow took out the door on my mailbox. It's a ****ty mailbox. Decided to just buy a new one.

get everything installed on the mailbox, start mounting it to the post and realize, the MFer cracked the primary post too. Great. Just ****ing great. Glad we don't have two feed of ice pack around the mailboxes and about two months until it thaws. Goddamnit.

[LynahFan]

Plus tankless heaters are expensive to service.

Oh hell yeah. Just be glad yours isn’t installed 1/4 mile from the Atlantic Ocean where, but for the presence of Floridians with lawn mowers, it would be a tropical jungle. I swear PVC rusts here if you leave it out overnight. I expect to replace ours every 4 years or so.

But the wife wants her 45 min showers, ya know?

[walrus]

Oh hell yeah. Just be glad yours isn’t installed 1/4 mile from the Atlantic Ocean where, but for the presence of Floridians with lawn mowers, it would be a tropical jungle. I swear PVC rusts here if you leave it out overnight. I expect to replace ours every 4 years or so.

But the wife wants her 45 min showers, ya know?

I am within a 1/4 mile of ocean, just in cold Maine not warm Fla. I want to know why no DHW via solar. Seems like a no brainer in Fla. I've had 2 panels on my roof since the 90s, Maintenance has been minimal and it works to help with hot water load. Seems like you guys could do nearly 100%?

[Swansong]

The joys of an older home. Fortunately I've remodeled the entire 1st floor over the last 10-15 years and was able to put proper insulation in the walls, and replace the old, drafty doors and windows.

I'm really surprised by how well horsehair plaster insulates. When the house gets cold, it takes a long time to warm up. but it's really easy to maintain temperature.


But I totally need to replace my windows. And insulate the holes in the floors where the steam pipes come through.

[dxmnkd316]

So the plow took out the door on my mailbox. It's a ****ty mailbox. Decided to just buy a new one.

get everything installed on the mailbox, start mounting it to the post and realize, the MFer cracked the primary post too. Great. Just ****ing great. Glad we don't have two feed of ice pack around the mailboxes and about two months until it thaws. Goddamnit.

Follow-up

(I'm feeling kind of stupid but since I've never once experienced this in my life, whatever)

It's perfectly acceptable to just buy a post, right? I don't have a miter saw but I don't see any reason to turn what could be a $30 project into a $530 project.
THis is what normal people do, right?


Edit: I'm assuming this is also the ****tiest selection of wood because it's so cheap. But as long as it lasts several years, whatever. Just hoping there isn't concrete to dig up. What a pain in the ***.

[RaceBoarder]

Follow-up

(I'm feeling kind of stupid but since I've never once experienced this in my life, whatever)

It's perfectly acceptable to just buy a post, right? I don't have a miter saw but I don't see any reason to turn what could be a $30 project into a $530 project.
THis is what normal people do, right?


Edit: I'm assuming this is also the ****tiest selection of wood because it's so cheap. But as long as it lasts several years, whatever. Just hoping there isn't concrete to dig up. What a pain in the ***.

I don't see why you couldn't just buy a new post... It shouldn't be that expensive...

Also, have you contacted the Town/County/Whomever plows for you? They likely have a fund set up for this exact thing.... About 10 years ago my parents had their mailbox taken out. They called the Village and were basically told to send in pictures. After receiving them, they were told to get receipts from Lowes for the fix, and were fully compensated for this. There was an upper limit, but was not a super close cut when all was said and done. My Dad was out the time of course, but still a small part of the entire thing.