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  • Originally posted by Swansong View Post

    I know better than to question your math, but there is a lot more than just shower use in terms of hot water.



    I did not go with a tankless system when I needed to replace my heater last year, but it was more about the fact that the installation would have been crazy expensive for me as they'd have had to re-plumb my entire system. Right now my boiler and hot water heater are next to each other in the middle of the basement, next to the central chimney. Tankless systems must be installed on an external wall and vented, so I'd have had to run gas lines, all the plumbing and power to a part of the wall that doesn't have those things, plus I'd have to cut a hole in the wall for said vent.


    Also, my hot water heater and boiler both went on the same day, so I was already facing a $NASA installation/equipment charge.
    Exactly - and that's why they never pay. NA$A to install, and the "maintenance heat" that you save compared to all that usage (which I meant to point out that I was being very, very conservative on, especially in the teenage girl department) is vanishingly small.

    If you want the luxury of unlimited hot water - pay NA$A and own it as a luxury item. Don't buy one thinking that you're cleverly beating the system and somehow saving money.

    Edit to add: we're about to install one.
    If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
      Edit to add: we're about to install one.
      Gut laugh.
      Code:
      As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
      College Hockey 6       College Football 0
      BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
      Originally posted by SanTropez
      May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
      Originally posted by bigblue_dl
      I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
      Originally posted by Kepler
      When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
      He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

      Comment


      • Plus tankless heaters are expensive to service.
        I swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell.

        Maine Hockey Love it or Leave it

        Comment


        • One thing I saw that probably cuts water usage by at least double digits from Gen 1 TWHs was the recirc loop. TWHs take a bit to get up to temp, so you're basically just dumping water down the drain. Some come with a recirc loop (not sure how this works with regards to opening a tap and waiting) that gets the water up to temp and then sends it to the hot water header. Again, it's just one more pain in the *** thing to break and... Jeeze, I dunno man. I'd rather just buy a 12" thick bat of insulation than worry about 100 parts failing.

          Too bad we can't just make these things out of hastelloy, make them vacuum insulated pressure vessels, and they'd outlast the cockroaches.
          Code:
          As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
          College Hockey 6       College Football 0
          BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
          Originally posted by SanTropez
          May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
          Originally posted by bigblue_dl
          I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
          Originally posted by Kepler
          When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
          He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

          Comment


          • Originally posted by walrus View Post
            Plus tankless heaters are expensive to service.
            Yeah, the nightmare stories I've seen where "Oh, part XYZ failed and you can't really service it so they make you send in your unit to prove it defective and they'll send you a new one". Given the supply chain issues now, I'm opting for simplicity. Or efficient and complicated with a simple backup (like keeping my non-smart thermostat in case the ecobee takes a dump).
            Code:
            As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
            College Hockey 6       College Football 0
            BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
            Originally posted by SanTropez
            May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
            Originally posted by bigblue_dl
            I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
            Originally posted by Kepler
            When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
            He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

            Comment


            • Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
              One thing I saw that probably cuts water usage by at least double digits from Gen 1 TWHs was the recirc loop. TWHs take a bit to get up to temp, so you're basically just dumping water down the drain. Some come with a recirc loop (not sure how this works with regards to opening a tap and waiting) that gets the water up to temp and then sends it to the hot water header. Again, it's just one more pain in the *** thing to break and... Jeeze, I dunno man. I'd rather just buy a 12" thick bat of insulation than worry about 100 parts failing.

              Too bad we can't just make these things out of hastelloy, make them vacuum insulated pressure vessels, and they'd outlast the cockroaches.
              I have no earthly idea what almost any of the words in this post mean, but I will say that my totally awesome, 1 year old 40 gallon hot water heater has what I think is the same problem you mention. Water in the pipes between the heater and the shower head cools off, and it takes a minute for piping hot water to work its way through the labyrinthine plumbing system.
              I gotta little bit of smoke and a whole lotta wine...

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Swansong View Post
                Water in the pipes between the heater and the shower head cools off, and it takes a minute for piping hot water to work its way through the labyrinthine plumbing system.
                Are your pipes insulated? Accessible? Foam pipe insulation will go a long way to helping that problem.

                My shower is roughly 25' or so from the hot water tank in the unfinished basement. In winter the basement stays at about 68? since the main heating lines are 1-1/2 steel pipe that run down the center of the basement, so it's far from cold down there. We would have to wait 45-90 seconds to get shower-worthy hot water. Since I insulated the run (which is PEX tubing), hot water can usually be had in 15-30 seconds. Doesn't solve the problem but makes it a bunch easier to tolerate.
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                Comment


                • Originally posted by MarkEagleUSA View Post
                  Are your pipes insulated? Accessible? Foam pipe insulation will go a long way to helping that problem.

                  My shower is roughly 25' or so from the hot water tank in the unfinished basement. In winter the basement stays at about 68? since the main heating lines are 1-1/2 steel pipe that run down the center of the basement, so it's far from cold down there. We would have to wait 45-90 seconds to get shower-worthy hot water. Since I insulated the run (which is PEX tubing), hot water can usually be had in 15-30 seconds. Doesn't solve the problem but makes it a bunch easier to tolerate.
                  I still have some asbestos insulation down in the basement, but once it gets into the walls, it's an old house with horse hair plaster, so no insulation between the exterior walls and the plaster. The basement gets down as low as the low 60s.

                  I'd guess on average, it takes a good 1-2 minutes. Not really a complaint, I guess.
                  I gotta little bit of smoke and a whole lotta wine...

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Swansong View Post

                    I still have some asbestos insulation down in the basement, but once it gets into the walls, it's an old house with horse hair plaster, so no insulation between the exterior walls and the plaster. The basement gets down as low as the low 60s.

                    I'd guess on average, it takes a good 1-2 minutes. Not really a complaint, I guess.
                    The joys of an older home. Fortunately I've remodeled the entire 1st floor over the last 10-15 years and was able to put proper insulation in the walls, and replace the old, drafty doors and windows.
                    Quinnipiac Bobcats
                    2012-13, 2014-15, 2015-16, 2018-19, 2020-21, 2021-22 ECAC Regular Season Champions
                    2013 East Regional Champions, Frozen Four
                    2014 East Regional
                    2015 West Regional
                    2016 ECAC Tournament Champions, East Regional Champions, Frozen Four
                    2019 Midwest Regional
                    2021 West Regional
                    2022 Midwest Regional

                    Comment


                    • So the plow took out the door on my mailbox. It's a ****ty mailbox. Decided to just buy a new one.

                      get everything installed on the mailbox, start mounting it to the post and realize, the MFer cracked the primary post too. Great. Just fucking great. Glad we don't have two feed of ice pack around the mailboxes and about two months until it thaws. Goddamnit.
                      Code:
                      As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                      College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                      BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                      Originally posted by SanTropez
                      May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                      Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                      I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                      Originally posted by Kepler
                      When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                      He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by walrus View Post
                        Plus tankless heaters are expensive to service.
                        Oh hell yeah. Just be glad yours isn’t installed 1/4 mile from the Atlantic Ocean where, but for the presence of Floridians with lawn mowers, it would be a tropical jungle. I swear PVC rusts here if you leave it out overnight. I expect to replace ours every 4 years or so.

                        But the wife wants her 45 min showers, ya know?
                        Last edited by LynahFan; 03-09-2022, 06:45 PM.
                        If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by LynahFan View Post

                          Oh hell yeah. Just be glad yours isn’t installed 1/4 mile from the Atlantic Ocean where, but for the presence of Floridians with lawn mowers, it would be a tropical jungle. I swear PVC rusts here if you leave it out overnight. I expect to replace ours every 4 years or so.

                          But the wife wants her 45 min showers, ya know?
                          I am within a 1/4 mile of ocean, just in cold Maine not warm Fla. I want to know why no DHW via solar. Seems like a no brainer in Fla. I've had 2 panels on my roof since the 90s, Maintenance has been minimal and it works to help with hot water load. Seems like you guys could do nearly 100%?
                          I swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell.

                          Maine Hockey Love it or Leave it

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by MarkEagleUSA View Post
                            The joys of an older home. Fortunately I've remodeled the entire 1st floor over the last 10-15 years and was able to put proper insulation in the walls, and replace the old, drafty doors and windows.
                            I'm really surprised by how well horsehair plaster insulates. When the house gets cold, it takes a long time to warm up. but it's really easy to maintain temperature.


                            But I totally need to replace my windows. And insulate the holes in the floors where the steam pipes come through.
                            I gotta little bit of smoke and a whole lotta wine...

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
                              So the plow took out the door on my mailbox. It's a ****ty mailbox. Decided to just buy a new one.

                              get everything installed on the mailbox, start mounting it to the post and realize, the MFer cracked the primary post too. Great. Just fucking great. Glad we don't have two feed of ice pack around the mailboxes and about two months until it thaws. Goddamnit.
                              Follow-up

                              (I'm feeling kind of stupid but since I've never once experienced this in my life, whatever)

                              It's perfectly acceptable to just buy a post, right? I don't have a miter saw but I don't see any reason to turn what could be a $30 project into a $530 project.
                              THis is what normal people do, right?


                              Edit: I'm assuming this is also the ****tiest selection of wood because it's so cheap. But as long as it lasts several years, whatever. Just hoping there isn't concrete to dig up. What a pain in the ***.
                              Last edited by dxmnkd316; 03-10-2022, 08:24 AM.
                              Code:
                              As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                              College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                              BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                              Originally posted by SanTropez
                              May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                              Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                              I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                              Originally posted by Kepler
                              When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                              He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post

                                Follow-up

                                (I'm feeling kind of stupid but since I've never once experienced this in my life, whatever)

                                It's perfectly acceptable to just buy a post, right? I don't have a miter saw but I don't see any reason to turn what could be a $30 project into a $530 project.
                                THis is what normal people do, right?


                                Edit: I'm assuming this is also the ****tiest selection of wood because it's so cheap. But as long as it lasts several years, whatever. Just hoping there isn't concrete to dig up. What a pain in the ***.
                                I don't see why you couldn't just buy a new post... It shouldn't be that expensive...

                                Also, have you contacted the Town/County/Whomever plows for you? They likely have a fund set up for this exact thing.... About 10 years ago my parents had their mailbox taken out. They called the Village and were basically told to send in pictures. After receiving them, they were told to get receipts from Lowes for the fix, and were fully compensated for this. There was an upper limit, but was not a super close cut when all was said and done. My Dad was out the time of course, but still a small part of the entire thing.
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