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The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

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  • Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

    Borrowed from elsewhere

    Imma be cynical for a moment here, but I think McCain's speech was more after-the-fact justification.

    I suspect what went down was more like this:

    McCain returned to the Senate not for health care, but for the National Defense Authorization Act.

    The quid pro quo McConnell was offering McCain in exchange for his vote on repeal was an agreement to take up the NDAA immediately after the health vote so he could shepherd that through passage before he had to leave again for treatment.

    Rand Paul had some issues with the NDAA, was assured by McCain's office that those would be addressed via regular order, but that wasn't enough - he objected to the fast-tracking of the NDAA, which prevents the Senate from taking it up in time for McCain to do anything about it.

    So McCain voted against repeal as a middle finger to Rand Paul.
    "I went over the facts in my head, and admired how much uglier the situation had just become. Over the years I've learned that ignorance is more than just bliss. It's freaking orgasmic ecstasy".- Harry Dresden, Blood Rites


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    • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
      LOL. Understatement of the Year.




      No. The situation has changed a lot. They used to be able to go to that well because OBAMACARE ARGLE BARGLE, but now even the dullest knife in the drawer realizes that repeal will throw millions of people and their children off insurance and effectively end their health care.

      The GOP needed to pull this off without any public debate because the facts kill them. They didn't accomplish that. This fiasco educated a lot of people about the actuals of Obamacare and Medicare, and that is very bad news for the GOP.

      Yes, they can still use it as an irritant to get Fox suckers to donate money and time and votes, but the pool of those suckers shrinks every day.

      The path forward for the GOP is to use Obamacare that way on the sly with their sheep, but with the larger electorate start darkly warning about the Democrats and TEH SOCIALISM!!! of Single Payer. There is still such global electoral ignorance about Medicare for All that they can squeeze another few cycles of right wing poutrage out of that before health care goes the way of social security and they have to find a new whipping boy.
      Agree on the sad ignorance of single payer. That would have been a much better and cheaper way forward than either Obamacare or Trumpcare.

      I really think democrats are foolish to ignore the people getting a raw deal from Obamacare. There need to be changes made so their costs are at a reasonable level. The dems should start pushing legislation to show they have solutions even if there isn't much chance of it passing right now.
      Originally posted by BobbyBrady
      Crosby probably wouldn't even be on BC's top two lines next year

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      • Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

        Originally posted by Drew S. View Post
        I really think democrats are foolish to ignore the people getting a raw deal from Obamacare.
        This is another potential strategy: concern trolling. It helps turn the attention off the GOP and back where they want it to be: "Those Democrats are out of touch!!!" And it is attractive because it puts off the tough self-criticism that Republicans need to eventually suck up and do.

        The GOP has stepped in it, Drew. They've inculcated a worldview in their supporters where compromise is weakness or even treason, and that prevents them from getting anything done. They say demonstrably false things for applause lines and to prime donations, but then can't deliver because no one can: the world they paint does not exist. They spent multiple generations building their Parallel Universe and pushing their voters into it. Now they are stuck.

        The Democrats have been ceded the field of reality and really all we need to do is operate within it and tell the truth. Voters don't reward truth, Walter Mondale and Ronald Reagan demonstrated 33 years ago that between a hard truth and a pretty lie voters will pick the lie. But they do reward competence indirectly when things run more smoothly and right now we're the only side that even has a hope of competence because we're the only side living in reality.
        Last edited by Kepler; 07-28-2017, 10:48 AM.
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        • Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

          Originally posted by Drew S. View Post
          I really think democrats are foolish to ignore the people getting a raw deal from Obamacare. There need to be changes made so their costs are at a reasonable level. The dems should start pushing legislation to show they have solutions even if there isn't much chance of it passing right now.
          Listen to any Democrat. None of them say that the ACA is perfect. All of them are willing to work the parts that people are having problems with.

          What it takes for them to work on that are republicans willing to do that.

          IMHO, it's foolish to throw out the ACA because it's not perfect for everyone out of the gate. Anything can be fixed.

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          • Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

            Originally posted by alfablue View Post
            Listen to any Democrat. None of them say that the ACA is perfect. All of them are willing to work the parts that people are having problems with.

            What it takes for them to work on that are republicans willing to do that.

            IMHO, it's foolish to throw out the ACA because it's not perfect for everyone out of the gate. Anything can be fixed.
            Not to mention that at least half of what's wrong with ObamaCare is directly the result of the GOP intentionally sabotaging it.
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            • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
              This is another potential strategy: concern trolling. It helps turn the attention off the GOP and back where they want it to be: "Those Democrats are out of touch!!!" And it is attractive because it puts off the tough self-criticism that Republicans need to eventually suck up and do.

              The GOP has stepped in it, Drew. They've inculcated a worldview in their supporters where compromise is weakness or even treason, and that prevents them from getting anything done. They say demonstrably false things for applause lines and to prime donations, but then can't deliver because no one can: the world they paint does not exist. They spent multiple generations building their Parallel Universe and pushing their voters into it. Now they are stuck.

              The Democrats have been ceded the field of reality and really all we need to do is operate within it and tell the truth. Voters don't reward truth, Walter Mondale and Ronald Reagan demonstrated 33 years ago that between a hard truth and a pretty lie voters will pick the lie. But they do reward competence indirectly when things run more smoothly and right now we're the only side that even has a hope of competence because we're the only side living in reality.
              I think saying America has stepped in it might be a better description. You're unfortunately right about the Republican Party. They've lost the plot and it's not very obvious how they get their act together. This is by no means an endorsement of the democrats. If there was ever a time to launch a mainstream third party surely it is now.
              Originally posted by BobbyBrady
              Crosby probably wouldn't even be on BC's top two lines next year

              Comment


              • Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

                Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                Not to mention that at least half of what's wrong with ObamaCare is directly the result of the GOP intentionally sabotaging it.
                Of course. Ever since Turtle Boy and the Bone Man took over the Democrats haven't been able to Govern ****.
                **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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                • Originally posted by BassAle View Post
                  Did the three republican nos campaign on a straight up repeal? This would have lead to millions more without insurance and 20% higher premiums. Only the nuttiest senators actually wanted this. The rest knew it was **** but they voted for it because they hoped it would fail but they could still tell their brain dead GOP voters they tried to stick it to that Kenyan Muslim.

                  Agreeing to pass something only if the house promised not to pass it? Your party is a joke. They don't give a **** about fixing anything or helping anyone but the rich. And sticking it to the democrats and specifically ****ting on anything to do with Obama.
                  The party is not a joke. The leadership needs to be replaced.
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                  • Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

                    Originally posted by joecct View Post
                    The party is not a joke. The leadership needs to be replaced.
                    Oh, yes it is. Have you read the platform? Have you seen what Walker and Brownback have done? Have you seen some of the **** Texas has pulled? How about North Carolina. They are a JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                    **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                    Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                    Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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                    • Originally posted by jerphisch View Post
                      Are you drunk? There is no way they would get praise from the R side, Hate Radio and Fox would have a field day and moderate Rs would all get primaried from the far right.
                      McCain is dying and will be replaced by either some bot-like replacement or a Democrat.

                      Collins isn't getting primaried like stated by others.

                      Murkowski will either get primaried and run independently again and win or be replaced by a Democrat because the Republican candidate will be a nut job. But Murkowski has 5 years to reelection and that's enough time to build a warchest to make sure she won't get primaried.
                      U-A-A!!!Go!Go!GreenandGold!
                      Applejack Tells You How UAA Is Doing...
                      I spell Failure with UAF

                      Originally posted by UAFIceAngel
                      But let's be real...There are 40 some other teams and only two alaskan teams...the day one of us wins something big will be the day I transfer to UAA
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                      • Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

                        Originally posted by joecct View Post
                        The party is not a joke. The leadership needs to be replaced.
                        I agree it's not a joke. The GOP is a step to the right away from a white nationalist fascist party. That's not the leadership, it's the rank and file.
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                        • Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

                          Originally posted by Jimjamesak View Post
                          McCain is dying and will be replaced by either some bot-like replacement or a Democrat.
                          I haven't lived in AZ for about a decade, but they aren't electing a D Senator for probably another decade or more.

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                          • Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

                            Originally posted by Drew S. View Post
                            I think saying America has stepped in it might be a better description. You're unfortunately right about the Republican Party. They've lost the plot and it's not very obvious how they get their act together. This is by no means an endorsement of the democrats. If there was ever a time to launch a mainstream third party surely it is now.
                            The Democrats have been the centrist mainstream party ever since Bill Clinton. What we need is for both parties to slide to the left and become a reasonable left and a reasonable right, and then to gently oscillate between those two. What we have had for twenty years is staggering jolts between a center platform and a radical right wing Utopian political experiment that has failed.
                            Cornell University
                            National Champion 1967, 1970
                            ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                            Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                            • Originally posted by jerphisch View Post
                              I haven't lived in AZ for about a decade, but they aren't electing a D Senator for probably another decade or more.
                              Name recognition is a big thing in politics and I'd doubt there are very many Rs in Arizona that have name recognition that aren't fully nutty.
                              U-A-A!!!Go!Go!GreenandGold!
                              Applejack Tells You How UAA Is Doing...
                              I spell Failure with UAF

                              Originally posted by UAFIceAngel
                              But let's be real...There are 40 some other teams and only two alaskan teams...the day one of us wins something big will be the day I transfer to UAA
                              Originally posted by Doyle Woody
                              Best sign by a visting Seawolf fan Friday went to a young man who held up a piece of white poster board that read: "YOU CAN'T SPELL FAILURE WITHOUT UAF."

                              Comment


                              • Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

                                Originally posted by Jimjamesak View Post
                                Name recognition is a big thing in politics and I'd doubt there are very many Rs in Arizona that have name recognition that aren't fully nutty.
                                Then you will be getting a fully nutty R.

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