POTUS Elect Trump II: Lefties whining and regurgitating fake news

[St. Clown]

Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: Lefties whining and regurgitating fake news

Funny thing about sales taxes, which is essentially what the import portion of this tax plan is, is it's one of the few taxes that is mostly paid by the producers and not the consumers. It's as close to a fully backward-shifting cost as there is in business. Why is that so?

When a consumer goes to the market, that person has relatively set budget, and that person implicitly knows that s/he is willing to pay $10 for a widget. When applying a 5% tax, the state has placed much of the onus upon the retailer to either sell fewer widgets by excluding consumers who have that $10 marginal bracket, or reducing the price so that the total price comes in at or below the $10 mark.

With that said, yes, some of the sales tax is paid by the consumer when expanded to the entire basket of goods, it's not nearly to the degree that it appears on the surface. Economists have studied this tax at length, and it's mostly those non-essential, luxury-priced items and products with razor thin profit margins where the tax is least shifted back to the retailers, and by extension production companies of the goods. The luxury priced goods can soak in the tax for obvious reasons, but the razor-thin profit margin goods are for the very simple reason that the producers and retailers would have to stop carrying those goods if they were to also pay the sales tax. That's why we see food and clothing exempted from the sales tax in some (many?) states.

The biggest issue people tend to have with the sales tax is the surface appearance of going after poor people who can't afford it. It's an optics issue more than anything else.

How much of this holds up to the import tax will likely depend upon product sold.

[Slap Shot]

Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: Lefties whining and regurgitating fake news

Hmm. Typically increased import tariffs discourage foreign countries or businesses from trying to sell products to that country. This can lead to fewer choices which raises domestic prices and that does not exclude fruits and vegetables.

Here's a pretty in-depth look at Trump's proposal: Donald Trump has floated big tariffs. What could the impact be?

[E.J. Smith]

Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: Lefties whining and regurgitating fake news

Funny thing about sales taxes, which is essentially what the import portion of this tax plan is, is it's one of the few taxes that is mostly paid by the producers and not the consumers. It's as close to a fully backward-shifting cost as there is in business. Why is that so?

When a consumer goes to the market, that person has relatively set budget, and that person implicitly knows that s/he is willing to pay $10 for a widget. When applying a 5% tax, the state has placed much of the onus upon the retailer to either sell fewer widgets by excluding consumers who have that $10 marginal bracket, or reducing the price so that the total price comes in at or below the $10 mark.

With that said, yes, some of the sales tax is paid by the consumer when expanded to the entire basket of goods, it's not nearly to the degree that it appears on the surface. Economists have studied this tax at length, and it's mostly those non-essential, luxury-priced items and products with razor thin profit margins where the tax is least shifted back to the retailers, and by extension production companies of the goods. The luxury priced goods can soak in the tax for obvious reasons, but the razor-thin profit margin goods are for the very simple reason that the producers and retailers would have to stop carrying those goods if they were to also pay the sales tax. That's why we see food and clothing exempted from the sales tax in some (many?) states.

The biggest issue people tend to have with the sales tax is the surface appearance of going after poor people who can't afford it. It's an optics issue more than anything else.

How much of this holds up to the import tax will likely depend upon product sold.

Two people walk into a store to buy a toaster oven. The first person makes $500K/yr., the second makes $50K/yr. They each pay the same 5% Sales tax on the cost of the item. That 5% is a significantly greater percentage of the second person’s income than it is the first’s. That’s a regressive tax. Nothing you wrote above, and certainly nothing you speculated above, changes that.

[St. Clown]

Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: Lefties whining and regurgitating fake news

Two people walk into a store to buy a toaster oven. The first person makes $500K/yr., the second makes $50K/yr. They each pay the same 5% Sales tax on the cost of the item. That 5% is a significantly greater percentage of the second person’s income than it is the first’s. That’s a regressive tax. Nothing you wrote above, and certainly nothing you speculated above, changes that.

Depending upon the item, the store would charge 5% more for that same toaster had there been no sales tax at all. That's what economists have found through their data collections and statistical analyses. Nothing I said above or below is going to change that.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: Lefties whining and regurgitating fake news

A long time ago when I was in business school, there were four stakeholders: customers, employees, owners and the community at large. Now all you ever hear about is one — the owners.

Saw this in the Letters section of the newspaper today. So, I can't take credit. But, I agree with it 110%. It points directly at the heart of what is wrong with America and why America is dying.

[unofan]

Depending upon the item, the store would charge 5% more for that same toaster had there been no sales tax at all. That's what economists have found through their data collections and statistical analyses. Nothing I said above or below is going to change that.

Nevertheless, the poor person pays more to the government as a percentage of their income than the rich person does.

Sounds to me like you're simply stating another reason that sales taxes suck, not refuting the fact that they are in fact regressive taxes by definition.

[Slap Shot]

Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: Lefties whining and regurgitating fake news

China Tells Trump's Fools, Want A Trade War? We'll Start By Targeting Republican States.

Many of our Allies and Foes are trying to figure out what the man-child psycho is going to end up doing. As with all members of the GOP cult, you can’t believe a single word they tell you, and the sooner we Democrats learn that, the better off we’re going to be.

Well China is having none of this nonsense of saying one thing one moment and the complete opposite the next. If Trump and his band of fools wants to talk about a trade war with China, China is going to be ready to respond in a way that hurts Trump supporters first.

Yesterday, Trump named Peter Navarro as a trade adviser. Navarro has been a big critic of trade with China. Well China is taking no time to respond:

Trump team’s threats to name China a currency manipulator and to erect high tariffs against it—drew fire in China outside official circles.

…

“China is now preparing some weapons,” Ms. Cheng said. China’s Commerce Ministry “is quite busy now, I’m sure.”

...

“Their objective will be to parry what Trump does with targeted reprisals in areas of U.S. vulnerability.”

Among China’s likely targets, say trade experts: Boeing Co. aircraft and U.S. farm exports from Midwestern Republican states. Canceled Boeing orders would hurt U.S. shareholders, labor unions and the U.S. trade deficit, prompting pressure on the new administration, said Derek Scissors, an economist at data provider China Beige Book International. As of last month, China is awaiting delivery of 292 Boeing jets.

Blocking soybean or other U.S. food exports would prompt action by Republican Senators whose constituents lack a large manufacturing base,

...

Beijing also could look to pressure U.S. multinationals such as General Motors Co., which relies on China as its largest sales market. “Some companies that already invest in China, we’re likely to push them to lobby Trump,” Ms. Cheng said.

…

To retaliate, China also could make use of informal trade barriers—making health claims against American food products, for example—that are highly technical and difficult to counter in the WTO but hurt U.S. exporters, some experts said.

…

“Even if U.S. companies move back to the U.S., it doesn’t mean manufacturing jobs will come back since U.S. companies will use automation to save money,” said Ms. Cheng
The Chinese are not going to mess around with Trump’s threats, they’re going to respond, and they’re going to respond where it hurts. The ever Republican farmers who are already suffering low crop prices, are about to learn the lesson that willful ignorance of a candidate and an entire party is going to have a high price. The same will hold for the white working class in those Midwestern states that ignored the racism, the threats on religion and millions of people, the suffering to millions of others they knew was coming, and instead voted for a “change”, wink wink, nudge nudge.

Before he even takes office, Trump and the GOP have nations around the world getting ready for the chaos that an uninformed electorate, manipulated by attacks from without and within on an antiquated election system, have unleashed on our entire planet.

[Jimjamesak]

Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: Lefties whining and regurgitating fake news

Uh targeting Boeing doesn't hurt Republican states, it basically destroys the economy in Washington (the state), a heavily Democratic state, and a heavily unionized workforce, also largely Democratic.

[rufus]

Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: Lefties whining and regurgitating fake news

Saw this in the Letters section of the newspaper today. So, I can't take credit. But, I agree with it 110%. It points directly at the heart of what is wrong with America and why America is dying.

They aren't "the owners". They're the JAHBS CREATORS!!!!!

[E.J. Smith]

Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: Lefties whining and regurgitating fake news

Depending upon the item, the store would charge 5% more for that same toaster had there been no sales tax at all. That's what economists have found through their data collections and statistical analyses. Nothing I said above or below is going to change that.

Feel free to link to data on the effects of sales tax on the price elasticity of toaster ovens if you'd like to scratch that particular academic itch but as unofan has pointed out, none of that changes the fact that sales taxes are regressive. As in period, end of story.

With no data of my own, just common sense and personal observation, I find that assertion ludicrous. That 5% is just tacked on, market forces/competition should, and undoubtedly would, drive that out of the price. Or are the laws of supply and demand no longer a thing in economics?

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: Lefties whining and regurgitating fake news

RIP Middle Class.

Arthur Laffer, the architect of Kansas’ failed far-right economic experiment, is certain that if Donald Trump adopts similar policies at the national level, it will “lead to economic ‘nirvana’ in the U.S.”

The last chief executive to listen to Laffer’s advice, Kansas Gov. Sam Brownback (R), is thinking along the same lines. The Wall Street Journal reported over the holiday weekend:

Sam Brownback, the Kansas governor whose tax cuts brought him political turmoil, recurring budget holes and sparse evidence of economic success, has a message for President-elect Donald Trump: Do what I did.

In 2013, Mr. Brownback set out to create a lean, business-friendly government in his state that other Republicans could replicate. He now faces a $350 million deficit when the Kansas legislature convenes in January and projections of a larger one in 2018. The state’s economy is flat and his party is fractured.

Still, Mr. Brownback views his signature idea – eliminating the 4.6% state individual income tax for partnerships, limited liability corporations and similar businesses – as a national model.

He’s not alone. In 2012, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said of Brownback’s radical economic experiment, “This is exactly the sort of thing we want to do here, in Washington.”

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-s...d=sm_fb_maddow

[mookie1995]

Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: Lefties whining and regurgitating fake news

China Tells Trump's Fools, Want A Trade War? We'll Start By Targeting Republican States.

can we start hearings on how jina is manipulating the us economy

[aparch]

Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: Lefties whining and regurgitating fake news

Uh targeting Boeing doesn't hurt Republican states, it basically destroys the economy in Washington (the state), a heavily Democratic state, and a heavily unionized workforce, also largely Democratic.

Yep. And their headquarters are in downtown Chicago, the only democratic stranglehold in the Midwest.

Now, cutting the food imports, *that's* going to be the real kick to the nuts. Because all of a sudden these farmers are going to want to plant corn to get the Government subsidy for growing alternate fuel (ethanol). And Trump is totally against alternate fuel sources.



I'm starting to see Scooby's side of things. Fu** everyone else. If it doesn't effect me directly, 'eff em.

[aparch]

Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: Lefties whining and regurgitating fake news

can we start hearings on how jina is manipulating the us economy

Sure. Right after the same congressional hearing panel investigates how Russia influenced the election. Which will take place right after ANOTHER investigation into Hillary's e-mails. Which is right behind another MLB Anti-trust investigation. And just after an NFL concussion investigation. Another Benghazi investigation. A peek into Obamacare. Another MLB Anti-trust investigation. Another Hillary e-mail discussion. A review of "Deflate-gate." Another Hillary e-mail investigation. A quick review of Roe vs. Wade. Another Benghazi investigation. Another Hillary e-mail investigation. Another Benghazi investigation. Another Hillary e-mail investigation. Discussing Brown vs. Board of Education. And a look into the NFL's anti-trust laws.

So at this rate, they'll get to it in 2022.

[Spartanforlife4]

Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: Lefties whining and regurgitating fake news

Darn fake news shows Trump didn't donate to his foundation for at least five years, paid multiple fines and used money on his own.

Some of this came out during the election, but this is a good summary.