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  • #346
    Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

    So if no one had mentioned his job you would be posting differently on the subject. I am sure YOU believe that but we all know it isnt true.

    But lets for arguments sake say that is true...you are way too easy to trigger. I mean all it took was a bunch of outragers for you to completely dismiss the rights of an individual who was obviously mistreated. I mean that is your right of course...but if you lose your empathy and common sense because some people tweet about the outrage of the day you are no more mamby pamby than they are. Congrats.

    But hey, you keep fighting the good fight...you and United look like geniuses
    "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
    -aparch

    "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
    -INCH

    Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
    -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

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    • #347
      Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

      Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
      No, the narrative was delivered somewhat differently. It wasn't just generic passenger A. He was a doctor, with the implication that we are dealing with a well educated, stable, thinking individual. He was urgently needed back in Louisville at the hospital the next morning, with the implication that others people's lives are at stake here, not just this guy who wants to get home, just like everyone else. Why was this done? To stir up emotions.
      Much in the way you dropped your little nugget.

      For every person who colors the situation in one way, you'll find another who does it in reverse. And while I can at least understand people who would jump to the defense of an individual being roughed up, I just can't climb into the head of the person whose first instinct is the jab at that person and defend the airline.

      Are both reactions equally emotional and uninformed? Yes. Does one of them seem a little creepy to me? Why, yes. Yes it does.

      See also:

      Cops and the people they shoot.

      Corporations are the people their goods and services may have mangled.

      High status people and the low status people they pick on.

      And on and on.

      Yeah, I guess both reactions are equally from the hip, but the guy who immediately jumps to the defense of the stronger party? I mean, who reacts that way?
      Last edited by Kepler; 04-13-2017, 03:12 PM.
      Cornell University
      National Champion 1967, 1970
      ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
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      • #348
        Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

        I'm not surprised by reactions- the right loves corporations more than people. It doesn't matter as long as it's not affecting them directly

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        • #349
          Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

          Originally posted by Handyman View Post
          So if no one had mentioned his job you would be posting differently on the subject. I am sure YOU believe that but we all know it isnt true.

          But lets for arguments sake say that is true...you are way too easy to trigger. I mean all it took was a bunch of outragers for you to completely dismiss the rights of an individual who was obviously mistreated. I mean that is your right of course...but if you lose your empathy and common sense because some people tweet about the outrage of the day you are no more mamby pamby than they are. Congrats.

          But hey, you keep fighting the good fight...you and United look like geniuses
          I think I've made it pretty clear in earlier posts that I'm skeptical as to whether this guy's rights were violated. United could certainly have tried a couple of other methods to avoid the current public relations nightmare, such as maybe offering more money to get someone to volunteer, or even follow uno's suggestion of bumping this guy before he entered the plane. But their failure to do so doesn't, in my opinion, rise to the level of violating his rights. Once he refused the lawful instructions of a security officer, he was looking for trouble.

          But I'll admit to being a bit of a contrarian. When public outrage starts to swarm in one direction, I tend to look for reasons to go the opposite way. There is nothing the news media and blogosphere likes better than a story of our evil corporate overlords stomping on one of us. Let's see if we can't get the pitchforks and torches out. Anything that busts their narrative, frankly I enjoy.
          That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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          • #350
            Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

            Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
            I think I've made it pretty clear in earlier posts that I'm skeptical as to whether this guy's rights were violated. United could certainly have tried a couple of other methods to avoid the current public relations nightmare, such as maybe offering more money to get someone to volunteer, or even follow uno's suggestion of bumping this guy before he entered the plane. But their failure to do so doesn't, in my opinion, rise to the level of violating his rights. Once he refused the lawful instructions of a security officer, he was looking for trouble.

            But I'll admit to being a bit of a contrarian. When public outrage starts to swarm in one direction, I tend to look for reasons to go the opposite way. There is nothing the news media and blogosphere likes better than a story of our evil corporate overlords stomping on one of us. Let's see if we can't get the pitchforks and torches out. Anything that busts their narrative, frankly I enjoy.
            That'd be fine but how do you live with such a hollow victory? Like I said before, he's going to get paid and the airline is going to suffer immeasurable losses. In other words, no matter how you look at United Airlines screwed up.

            I guess if it were me I'd have a hard time reveling in such a thing when I knew the end result was a disaster.
            **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

            Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
            Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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            • #351
              Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

              Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
              That'd be fine but how do you live with such a hollow victory? Like I said before, he's going to get paid and the airline is going to suffer immeasurable losses. In other words, no matter how you look at United Airlines screwed up.

              I guess if it were me I'd have a hard time reveling in such a thing when I knew the end result was a disaster.
              I don't measure these things as wins and losses. Whatever impact it has on me personally, it's likely to be extremely minor. It's just an event.
              That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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              • #352
                Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

                Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                I don't measure these things as wins and losses. Whatever impact it has on me personally, it's likely to be extremely minor. It's just an event.
                Ok, but that's like caring about all the stats from a hockey game but ignoring the final result.
                **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

                Comment

                • #353
                  Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

                  He was asked to leave involuntarily. He refused.
                  He was told possible jail time. He refused.
                  He was told he'd be removed forcibly. He refused AND threatened a lawsuit.

                  Now, here's where it gets messed up:

                  Security completely effed him up upon removal, their fault.
                  He threw a tantrum and tried to prevent a "clean" forced removal, his fault. Here's a hint, if you resist like he did, bad (accidental) things may happen. I really don't think security tried to injure him, but I also admit security wasn't exactly precise in their removal.

                  He's now suing for all the money and saying that he was more frightened at that moment than when he fled 'Nam. Okay, whoa. Hold your horses.........that's a dam good lawyer, and a ridiculous statement.
                  Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
                  Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

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                  • #354
                    Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post
                    He was asked to leave involuntarily. He refused.
                    He was told possible jail time. He refused.
                    He was told he'd be removed forcibly. He refused AND threatened a lawsuit.

                    Now, here's where it gets messed up:

                    Security completely effed him up upon removal, their fault.
                    He threw a tantrum and tried to prevent a "clean" forced removal, his fault. Here's a hint, if you resist like he did, bad (accidental) things may happen. I really don't think security tried to injure him, but I also admit security wasn't exactly precise in their removal.

                    He's now suing for all the money and saying that he was more frightened at that moment than when he fled 'Nam. Okay, whoa. Hold your horses.........that's a dam good lawyer, and a ridiculous statement.
                    It was messed up because United had no legal right to remove him. The flight was not overbooked, it was fully booked and United wanted seats for their employees. Nothing in the contracts give them the right to remove paying passengers for their dead heads.

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                    • #355
                      Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

                      Originally posted by goldy_331 View Post
                      It was messed up because United had no legal right to remove him. The flight was not overbooked, it was fully booked and United wanted seats for their employees. Nothing in the contracts give them the right to remove paying passengers for their dead heads.
                      Thanks for posting this cause it's the last important piece that I was wondering about.
                      **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                      Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                      Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

                      Comment

                      • #356
                        Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

                        Originally posted by goldy_331 View Post
                        It was messed up because United had no legal right to remove him. The flight was not overbooked, it was fully booked and United wanted seats for their employees. Nothing in the contracts give them the right to remove paying passengers for their dead heads.
                        I'm not sure that is true in every case. If a crew is needed at another airport to prevent delay of the flight they need to crew then I'm pretty sure they have the legal right to remove passengers from a flight. Flight delays can have cascading effects throughout the air travel system, and the FAA would give them the authority to make sure a crew gets where they need to be to prevent such a delay.

                        Comment

                        • #357
                          Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

                          Originally posted by BassAle View Post
                          I'm not sure that is true in every case. If a crew is needed at another airport to prevent delay of the flight they need to crew then I'm pretty sure they have the legal right to remove passengers from a flight. Flight delays can have cascading effects throughout the air travel system, and the FAA would give them the authority to make sure a crew gets where they need to be to prevent such a delay.
                          It seems to me that lost in all the discussion about whether United had a legal right to remove the passenger is a simple fact -- it's their plane. I'm certainly no expert in aviation law, but from what I've read, carriers have a right to control their own bumping processes. So long as they meet certain minimum requirements, it's "legal." They have to have a policy, and have it clearly stated. They need to first ask for volunteers. They need to offer some compensation to see if they can get people to volunteer. If they don't get enough volunteers, they need to have an established policy as to who they involuntarily bump. Once they do that, I'm pretty sure it's all "legal."
                          That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

                          Comment

                          • #358
                            Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

                            And again, I dont care if it was legal or not. It was bad business and they are paying for it. As they flipping should. You reap what you sow. This ranks up there with businesses that take a stance on gay marriage or abortion or something then cant handle getting protested over it. You have the right to take a stand, but people have a right to dislike you for it.
                            "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                            -aparch

                            "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                            -INCH

                            Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                            -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

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                            • #359
                              Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

                              You can't be prosecuted for exercising your 1st Amendment rights. However, you can be persecuted.
                              CCT '77 & '78
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                              ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
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                              Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                              I want to live forever. So far, so good.

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                              • #360
                                Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

                                Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                                And again, I dont care if it was legal or not. It was bad business and they are paying for it. As they flipping should. You reap what you sow. This ranks up there with businesses that take a stance on gay marriage or abortion or something then cant handle getting protested over it. You have the right to take a stand, but people have a right to dislike you for it.
                                Legality is determined by campaign bribes. Morality is determined by all of us acting in concert.

                                UAL can go f-ck themselves.
                                Cornell University
                                National Champion 1967, 1970
                                ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                                Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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