Gender Studies I

[Kepler]

Being absolutely blunt, though:

Most of the time, I'd say 99% of it, no one gives a rat's arse about women's sport and only leave "haha" reactions on any women's sports news. It's only when you add a trans woman to the mix that people become Very Concerned and become experts on muscle memory and bone density.

Obviously, none of these critics sincerely cares about the sports. This is Christian Taliban tubthumping, amplified by the rightwing parasites who grift off of it.

c.f. gay marriage, gays adopting, women priests, pre-marital sex, birth control, sex education in schools, etc...

[unofan]

Obviously, none of these critics sincerely cares about the sports. This is Christian Taliban tubthumping, amplified by the rightwing parasites who grift off of it.

c.f. gay marriage, gays adopting, women priests, pre-marital sex, birth control, sex education in schools, etc...

Except in none of those examples does underlying biology matter. In athletics, the testosterone provided by the Y chromosone provides a huge advantage post-puberty. It's why high school boys teams can regularly beat women's Olympic teams.

In the grand scheme of things, whatever, doesn't affect me. But I can understand why a female athlete who gets knocked off a podium at the 10k Turkey Trot by a pre-transition transgender athlete might be annoyed.

[Kepler]

Except in none of those examples does underlying biology matter. In athletics, the testosterone provided by the Y chromosone provides a huge advantage post-puberty. It's why high school boys teams can regularly beat women's Olympic teams.

In the grand scheme of things, whatever, doesn't affect me. But I can understand why a female athlete who gets knocked off a podium at the 10k Turkey Trot by a pre-transition transgender athlete might be annoyed.

I'm not talking about the merits. I'm talking about the motivations of the people who whine about it.

It's like people who complain about affirmative action. There may or may not be real logical considerations -- but those have nothing to do with the anti-affirmative action project. That is 100% all about racism and grifting off racist morons.

See also: religious liberty, fiscal conservatism, Originalism, everything else the Right yaps about. The ostensible issue is an arbitrary fig leaf. The reality is the disgusting character of the complainers, finding a way to ooze out at us while hiding behind an alleged (fictitious) "principle."

[RaceBoarder]

Except in none of those examples does underlying biology matter. In athletics, the testosterone provided by the Y chromosone provides a huge advantage post-puberty. It's why high school boys teams can regularly beat women's Olympic teams.

In the grand scheme of things, whatever, doesn't affect me. But I can understand why a female athlete who gets knocked off a podium at the 10k Turkey Trot by a pre-transition transgender athlete might be annoyed.

This. Specifically go and look at the qualifying standards for any state's State Final Track & Field meet for Boys and Girls. There is a reason that the Girl's standards are all 15-20% slower/shorter than the Boy's. It's pure genetics at that point and allowing a full genetic "male" to compete here is just absurd. As the Outside article pointed out, implementing a genetic testing regimen at this level is a logistical nightmare. And that is where the issue comes in as there are 18 states that allow one to simply state "I'm a Female" in order to compete.

Unfortunately its an area that's not cut and dry. Miss T. said that it's an all or nothing proposition. Then unfortunately everyone has to sit because 2-3% of "elite" athletes will absolutely abuse this system. That's the reality of it. This isn't a pervert using this as an excuse to gain access to the Women's washroom. There are numerous, documented cases of this already cropping up in athletics.

[Kepler]

The point is the integrity of who wins a girl's cross country race is less important than the principle that girls can self-identify as such sincerely.

The sport is a social fiction that exists for us to do whatever we want with it. It's a game we invented. "Winning" is a game we invented. It doesn't mean anything independent of us.

Gender identity is a real thing. It exists whether we make up stupid rules for stupid sports about it or not.

Real things > Arbitrary concepts

Our culture exists to serve us; we do not exist to serve it.

[MissThundercat]

What's next? Inspecting our genitals to make sure we're okay to compete?

[MissThundercat]

This. Specifically go and look at the qualifying standards for any state's State Final Track & Field meet for Boys and Girls. There is a reason that the Girl's standards are all 15-20% slower/shorter than the Boy's. It's pure genetics at that point and allowing a full genetic "male" to compete here is just absurd. As the Outside article pointed out, implementing a genetic testing regimen at this level is a logistical nightmare. And that is where the issue comes in as there are 18 states that allow one to simply state "I'm a Female" in order to compete.

Unfortunately its an area that's not cut and dry. Miss T. said that it's an all or nothing proposition. Then unfortunately everyone has to sit because 2-3% of "elite" athletes will absolutely abuse this system. That's the reality of it. This isn't a pervert using this as an excuse to gain access to the Women's washroom. There are numerous, documented cases of this already cropping up in athletics.

That is a huge [citation needed].

[ericredaxe]

Being absolutely blunt, though:

Most of the time, I'd say 99% of it, no one gives a rat's arse about women's sport

I disagree with this assessment. While true that the "big 4" pro men's sports are the most dominant on television and dollars, women's sports have continued to grow in tandem with the growth of youth sports in girls. Look at the following that spots like Women's soccer (both USA and professional), USA and even NCAA women's hockey, the viewership of women's Olympic sports (swimming, skiing, track and field) and more.

[RaceBoarder]

That is a huge [citation needed].

Did you read the Outside article that was posted?

[MissThundercat]

Still, all of you are proving my point. Most of the time, you don't really give a F about women's sports, but when a trans woman competes, you leap off your couch, scream "I MUST PROTECT THE REALM!" and you suddenly become experts in muscle memory and bone density.

[unofan]

The point is the integrity of who wins a girl's cross country race is less important than the principle that girls can self-identify as such sincerely.

The sport is a social fiction that exists for us to do whatever we want with it. It's a game we invented. "Winning" is a game we invented. It doesn't mean anything independent of us.

Gender identity is a real thing. It exists whether we make up stupid rules for stupid sports about it or not.

Real things > Arbitrary concepts

Our culture exists to serve us; we do not exist to serve it.

Then we might as well not have girls/female sports at all because they're already essentially a handicapped/flighted division to begin with. Since that's just a social fiction and doesn't matter.

[Kepler]

Then we might as well not have girls/female sports at all because they're already essentially a handicapped/flighted division to begin with. Since that's just a social fiction and doesn't matter.

That makes no sense at all, even for an engineer.

You guys please just stick to fixing things.

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

That makes no sense at all, even for an engineer.

You guys please just stick to fixing things.

Isn’t uno the lawyer, not the engineer?

[Kepler]

Isn’t uno the lawyer, not the engineer?

What's the difference?

[RaceBoarder]

What's the difference?

I'll pose the same question to you as I did to MissT:

Why are the qualifying standards for Women significantly less than Men in Track & Field (at all levels, but specifically looking at the High School level)? I mean, gender is just a social construct right? This is basically saying that Person A needs to meet one standard, but Person B needs to meet another...