Gender Studies I

[dxmnkd316]

I think for sports it's complicated. Depends on the level, the governing body, and what is considered an unfair advantage. I think testosterone levels are probably a good place to start, which is where I think the NCAA started, right?

As an aside, when Oscar pistorious was running in the Olympics, I found it problematic because he or someone in the future could potentially gain a mechanical advantage. No different than swimmers and the insane body suits they could wear. Which is why I have said let every sport govern itself.

Good on the NCAA for making a courageous and difficult decision to let her compete. Hopefully we see more.

[dxmnkd316]

That isn't an event.

If you look at past results, she was a good / very good swimmer when she was a male (good enough to get recruited to and compete for a Division 1 NCAA team), but not elite.

The 500? Whatever. I can't find where I read that.

[ericredaxe]

Didn't lia post a top 6 time across men and women in the 1,000 this year? She's just ****ing elite.

The 1000 is not an event (at least not one that is commonly swam at the NCAA championships) - so if she did it may be that her time was top 6 across both genders due to it being an uncommonly participated event?

Depending on how you define elite you could say she was elite when she was competing when as a male as well - at least elite enough to get recruited to and swim for an NCAA Division 1 Men's team... middle of the pack as a male, not likely to even qualify to go to the NCAA championships. Now competing as a female her times are certainly quite a bit higher up the ladder of "elite"... and fast enough to win the NCAA championship.

[dxmnkd316]

You said that already

[dxmnkd316]

Wait. What the hell

[ericredaxe]

Wait. What the hell

You may have quoted my post while I was editing it - I was trying to research 1000 yard swim events to make sure i was not stating bad information.

[Jeb2020]

Good on the NCAA for making a courageous and difficult decision to let her compete. Hopefully we see more.

Yes maybe if we see more there could one day be a trans category just like there is a mens and womens category.

Also, maybe one day we will see a trans man dominate a mens sport. But doubt it because you know, common sense.

[RaceBoarder]

There was outrage when Fallon Fox entered MMA. Same cries of unfair advantage. She fizzled out and there was silence.

There was outrage when Laurel Hubbard qualified for Tokyo. Same cries of unfair advantage and silence when she didn't make the medal round.

Lia Thomas won one event and there was outrage about unfair advantage. But when she finished 5th and 8th in the other two championships and her career is over, there is silence.

I see the hypocrisy. It's like people either don't want us to compete or if they do, how dare we actually be good.

Yet none of them were able to reach the top level (NCAA's, Olympics) in the Men's division. That's the whole point. They took advantage of the instant 10-20% performance boost.

[MissThundercat]

Yet none of them were able to reach the top level (NCAA's, Olympics) in the Men's division. That's the whole point. They took advantage of the instant 10-20% performance boost.

And you complain when there aren't standards, and complain when they adhere to the standards set by the sport's governing body.

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

So what are they supposed to do if HRT isn't enough to satisfy you? Measure muscle mass and body fat percentages for comparison against some threshold? Compete in their own "separate, but equal" gender division? Be forced to compete with the gender they no longer represent? Not compete at all?

[MissThundercat]

Laurel was the first trans Olympian despite standards being in place since 2003.

Lia was the first notable NCAA trans athlete.

There's been less than a handful of trans athletes accepted under NCAA/IOC standards. The standards are working just fine for now.

Amping up restrictions or keeping trans women out of sports entirely is a solution in search of a problem.

[RaceBoarder]

The current IOC/NCAA Standards work fine at those levels... Do they need to be tweaked? Maybe. They are a solid base to start from however.

But they are NOT sustainable for non-elite competition (I.E. high school and amatuer)... THat's the point... Again, this is not a single step/change solution across the board. But MissT keeps making general statements and refuses to acknowledge the questions that get posted by non-trolls. She also keeps applying her experiences as if they apply the same to elite athletes and their performance, which isn't exactly equal. Her experience is valid, yes, but it also doesn't fit as a guaranteed result (I'm pretty sure that any of the athletes in question here can open a pickle jar).

[MissThundercat]

"Non-Elite," meaning amateur.

And RaceBoarder is talking about what MIGHT happen. What has happened though is entirely different.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox...a-61c828655bc6

[RaceBoarder]

"Non-Elite," meaning amateur.

And RaceBoarder is talking about what MIGHT happen. What has happened though is entirely different.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox...a-61c828655bc6

Winning isn't the only thing... Placing top 10 in a race where they would never sniff it as a male is absolutely a difference and not fair to the person who finished behind them...

For the record, the Women's time of 7.18 is not even close to the 6.6 standard for the top Men's time. So a trans athlete at that level gets a free 10% performance boost?

[Fishman'81]

So what are they supposed to do if HRT isn't enough to satisfy you? Measure muscle mass and body fat percentages for comparison against some threshold? Compete in their own "separate, but equal" gender division? Be forced to compete with the gender they no longer represent? Not compete at all?

Compete as an "I'll pick my own gender" athlete..?

Sure, no one but friends and family will give a hoot, but the Lia situation is obviously unfair.

Who knows what even the Special Olympics will allow, going forward.

(Fire away, but I don't quite qualify right now... Give me a few more weeks.)