Mr. Trump, I mean Mr. President, which State would You Like To Round Them Up In?

[FreshFish]

Re: Mr. Trump, I mean Mr. President, which State would You Like To Round Them Up In?

Sure. He'll tell everybody just what they want to hear, just as he did in the primaries and the general. He won't believe or act on any of it, and just keep doing what he wants to do. Tax cuts for the rich, and getting as much as he can for himself out of his current position.

Well, here is a situation in which we can watch and see what happens. I'd like to place a bet on this prediction, to be determined as of September 30, 2017. You have one point of view, and I have another, and we don't need to argue, we will find out in time.

It seems to me that Trump genuinely loves this country. He didn't need to run for President, he already was quite successful. Did he do it for his own ego? Partly. Did he do it out of a sense of civic duty? Probably. He has done similar things in New York City.

I think he genuinely wants to rebuild our inner cities and lift minority communities out of poverty. I don't think that is hollow rhetoric but an actual commitment to change. You may disagree. We'll find out in 10 months who has a better grasp of the situation.


In 1980 Reagan was crazy dangerous cowboy war-mongerer who'd set the entire world aflame. By 1984 he was a benign uncle who reshaped American destiny. The only military action in 8 years was the invasion of Grenada.

[FreshFish]

Re: Mr. Trump, I mean Mr. President, which State would You Like To Round Them Up In?

I don't necessarily believe there is a correlation that winning the popular vote means if there were no Electoral College, they would have won the Presidency. The reason is, campaigns go in setting up strategy based on the rules of the game.

Let's use hockey as an analogy, since that is why we are all here on these boards. A team built for the regular season (i.e., to win the President's Trophy, i.e., the Washington Capitals) is not necessarily a team built to win in the playoffs (i.e., the Stanley Cup).

Campaigns know that they are not going to win certain states. For instance, the GOP knows they will never win NY, California, or Mass. So, they don't care how much they lose them by since it's a winner take all system within the states. Thus, they don't waste their time campaigning there (other than to perhaps protect down ballot candidates).

Now, if they knew the popular vote was all that mattered, they would campaign in those areas that might swing either way -- like pockets of Upstate NY. Because now how much they lose a state is important.

So, when people go all angst on the popular vote being different than the Electoral College, I'm all meh about it. You have no idea how it would turn out if the campaigns focused only on attracting the popular vote.

This seems like a very astute observation to me. Reince Preibus gave an interview in which he described exactly this strategy. He said that they started with a forecast of how many votes they would need to win in each state, and then set about figuring out how to get that many voters in each state on their side.



Also, I like the idea of a President of the United States, not the President of NYILCAMA.*



* or the President of BostonNewYorkCityPhiladelphiaChicagoDenverLosAngel esSanFranciso.

[leswp1]

Re: Mr. Trump, I mean Mr. President, which State would You Like To Round Them Up In?

I really wish I could believe he loves this country but, no matter how hard I attempt to, I can't participate in the delusion. Frankly I think he loves power and himself. Not in that order.

Read his 100 day plan last night. Hadn't had time to do that before. Holy sh1t. That was more frightening than all of his sociopathic behaviors and all his crazy adherents* put together. I look at it, think about the implications of what he proposes, see his supporters cheering and wonder if anyone has thought past tomorrow. How can people not look at that and figure out what the consequences will be? You can't thumb your nose at science without consequence. You can't thumb your nose at the world and have them say thank you very much. Hopefully I am more clueless than I think I am.

Have listened to people say they were worried about their children and grandchildren for some time. Never counted myself as one of them. Have joined the party

*commentary on the fringe people he attracted although after reading this I think a lot of people are crazy

[rufus]

Re: Mr. Trump, I mean Mr. President, which State would You Like To Round Them Up In?

I think he genuinely wants to rebuild our inner cities and lift minority communities out of poverty. I don't think that is hollow rhetoric but an actual commitment to change. You may disagree. We'll find out in 10 months who has a better grasp of the situation.

Yeah, that's why he wouldn't rent to black people.

[MaizeRage]

Re: Mr. Trump, I mean Mr. President, which State would You Like To Round Them Up In?

I don't necessarily believe there is a correlation that winning the popular vote means if there were no Electoral College, they would have won the Presidency. The reason is, campaigns go in setting up strategy based on the rules of the game.

(I agree. I just wanted to make fun of the hypocrisy of his ******* tweets.)

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: Mr. Trump, I mean Mr. President, which State would You Like To Round Them Up In?

(I agree. I just wanted to make fun of the hypocrisy of his ******* tweets.)

Fair enough. LOL

[cF[Authentic]]

Re: Mr. Trump, I mean Mr. President, which State would You Like To Round Them Up In?

Read his 100 day plan last night. Hadn't had time to do that before. Holy sh1t. That was more frightening than all of his sociopathic behaviors and all his crazy adherents* put together. I look at it, think about the implications of what he proposes, see his supporters cheering and wonder if anyone has thought past tomorrow. How can people not look at that and figure out what the consequences will be? You can't thumb your nose at science without consequence. You can't thumb your nose at the world and have them say thank you very much. Hopefully I am more clueless than I think I am.

Have listened to people say they were worried about their children and grandchildren for some time. Never counted myself as one of them. Have joined the party

*commentary on the fringe people he attracted although after reading this I think a lot of people are crazy

Not surprisingly, I know that people's bias plays into how they view his 100 day plan. Had a discussion with a friend last night who begrudgingly voted for Trump but saw it as the best option to have a republican congress get some positive things passed. He was surprised by the 100 day plan in how he agreed with so many (note: not all) of Trump's plans. Taken at face value, they seem like good ideas. The tough thing is implementing them in a way that's not going to **** a lot of people off (i.e. Obamacare).

However, as you have shown... people who are already upset about Trump being elected just see all of the possible negatives of the 100 day plan.

The truth lies somewhere in between but everything is so divided at this point that very few people can actually say "This is a great idea" or "This one isn't going to work" without getting shouted at for having a viewpoint.

[FreshFish]

Re: Mr. Trump, I mean Mr. President, which State would You Like To Round Them Up In?

Not surprisingly, I know that people's bias plays into how they view his 100 day plan. Had a discussion with a friend last night who begrudgingly voted for Trump but saw it as the best option to have a republican congress get some positive things passed. He was surprised by the 100 day plan in how he agreed with so many (note: not all) of Trump's plans. Taken at face value, they seem like good ideas. The tough thing is implementing them in a way that's not going to **** a lot of people off (i.e. Obamacare).

However, as you have shown... people who are already upset about Trump being elected just see all of the possible negatives of the 100 day plan.

The truth lies somewhere in between but everything is so divided at this point that very few people can actually say "This is a great idea" or "This one isn't going to work" without getting shouted at for having a viewpoint.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to cF[Authentic] again.

The last sentence of your post is terrific.

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Mr. Trump, I mean Mr. President, which State would You Like To Round Them Up In?

I'm definitely on-board with Senate term limits and the lobbying restrictions, but neither one of those is getting through Congress.

I'm OK with continued development of oil and natural gas reserves, but I think Trump overestimates the current demand for them when he says they're worth "$50 trillion".

I'm on the fence with Obamacare. I'd rather see it reformed, but it's probably going to get repealed.

School choice is going to give control to herp-a-derp Thumpers on local boards in Bible Belt states to set their own standards. It will be a disaster for American children.

His war on illegal immigrants is going to be expensive, and probably a failure.

His trade war with JHINA is going to be a disaster for the American consumer.

His tax plan is going to be a disaster for the national debt, and further widen the gap between the middle class and the rich.

His SCOTUS pick is going to be a disaster, probably someone even worse than Scalia was, so write that one off as a YUGE loss.

The fcking wall. LOL.

More military spending. Endless fueling of the military-industrial complex. Sad.

[leswp1]

Re: Mr. Trump, I mean Mr. President, which State would You Like To Round Them Up In?

Not surprisingly, I know that people's bias plays into how they view his 100 day plan. Had a discussion with a friend last night who begrudgingly voted for Trump but saw it as the best option to have a republican congress get some positive things passed. He was surprised by the 100 day plan in how he agreed with so many (note: not all) of Trump's plans. Taken at face value, they seem like good ideas. The tough thing is implementing them in a way that's not going to **** a lot of people off (i.e. Obamacare).

However, as you have shown... people who are already upset about Trump being elected just see all of the possible negatives of the 100 day plan.

The truth lies somewhere in between but everything is so divided at this point that very few people can actually say "This is a great idea" or "This one isn't going to work" without getting shouted at for having a viewpoint.

I actually agree on some of the concepts in the abstract but many of those things are now an integral part of larger systems. I can't see how completely backing out or dismantling them can be achieved without huge disruption (financial, international relations and societal) on all levels. If I had faith that there was a coherent plan that took into account long term implications I would feel better~ but I don't. The people I have seen proposed for advisers excel at rousing the masses but haven't been effective in implementation.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Mr. Trump, I mean Mr. President, which State would You Like To Round Them Up In?

More military spending. Endless fueling of the military-industrial complex. Sad.

I don't recall Obama lowering that...

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Mr. Trump, I mean Mr. President, which State would You Like To Round Them Up In?

Cher said she is going to move to Jupiter. LOL

She'd better act fast. Eric Cartman gave it away already.

[FreshFish]

Re: Mr. Trump, I mean Mr. President, which State would You Like To Round Them Up In?

I'm OK with continued development of oil and natural gas reserves, but I think Trump overestimates the current demand for them when he says they're worth "$50 trillion".

There may well be ancillary benefits; US could become net exporter; US could truly become energy independent, we could tell entire Middle East we don't care about them any more; keeping world price low deprives Russia and Iran of earnings from their oil and gas sales. We'll have to see.

I'm on the fence with Obamacare. I'd rather see it reformed, but it's probably going to get repealed.

semantics. they will keep the best parts but embed them in a true market setting. it is not that complicated.

Ideally, they would address a major issue not part of PPACA: make employer-provided health insurance benefits non-deductible to the employee; AND make individually-acquired health insurance tax deductible to the insured: this alone would drive the changeover from employer-based coverage to "association" based coverage (individuals get group rates based on some common demographic characteristics). In this setting, you'd have portability and with a well-designed open enrollment window, you could cover most pre-existing conditions except that small percentage with chronic care conditions; which would then be subsidized overtly rather than through some complicated risk-sharing formula with backdoor subsidies. Turn it back over to the states and get the feds out of it. we probably emphasize different elements but in big picture are in substantial agreement.

School choice is going to give control to herp-a-derp Thumpers on local boards in Bible Belt states to set their own standards. It will be a disaster for [some] American children.

and it also will be a tremendous improvement for inner-city minority children; as more evidence emerges and more rigorously-controlled studies emerge, it is becoming undeniable that charter schools provide minority children a far better education than urban public schools. The greatest demand for school choice and charter schools is coming from urban minority
parents. The courts also are viewing it as the major civil rights issue of our times. It was refreshing to hear Trump say so outright.

His tax plan is going to be a disaster

which one, the corporate tax plan or the personal tax plan? which would you rather have? 10% of $1 trillion, or 35% of $0? the corporate tax plan will be a net money maker. the personal tax plan I hope they defer until later. lower rates with fewer deductions could be revenue-neutral.

His SCOTUS pick is going to be a disaster

that seems a bit extreme... SCOTUS pick will merely say, go back to having the legislature pass laws, we are taking a sabbatical from legislating from the bench. It merely means longer, harder work to get what you want; you'll have to persuade people of its merits.

More military spending. Endless fueling of the military-industrial complex.

totally agree that is a big risk. on the other hand, if he drives a hard bargain and insists on value for the dollar, then we might actually move away from really expensive hardware and move toward more mobile, flexible strike force. What I really want to see in "military" spending is a huge investment in cyber protections. We are woefully unprotected now. Forget traditional military stuff, we need to make sure our infrastructure cannot be hacked.

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Mr. Trump, I mean Mr. President, which State would You Like To Round Them Up In?

... the phony electoral college ...

Uh-huh. Phony. Got it.

Spoiler Alert --> There is also a way to change that.

[BassAle]

Re: Mr. Trump, I mean Mr. President, which State would You Like To Round Them Up In?

I'm definitely on-board with Senate term limits and the lobbying restrictions, but neither one of those is getting through Congress.

I'm OK with continued development of oil and natural gas reserves, but I think Trump overestimates the current demand for them when he says they're worth "$50 trillion".

I'm on the fence with Obamacare. I'd rather see it reformed, but it's probably going to get repealed.

School choice is going to give control to herp-a-derp Thumpers on local boards in Bible Belt states to set their own standards. It will be a disaster for American children.

His war on illegal immigrants is going to be expensive, and probably a failure.

His trade war with JHINA is going to be a disaster for the American consumer.

His tax plan is going to be a disaster for the national debt, and further widen the gap between the middle class and the rich.

His SCOTUS pick is going to be a disaster, probably someone even worse than Scalia was, so write that one off as a YUGE loss.

The fcking wall. LOL.

More military spending. Endless fueling of the military-industrial complex. Sad.

I'm not sold on term limits. If people want their senator or congress person to keep serving, that should be their choice. With artificial term limits you lose a lot of institutional knowledge because you're constantly throwing out the most experienced people. We have term limits in Maine (4 consecutive terms), and there are a few long-time lawmakers that get around it by bouncing back and forth between the house and senate. One in particular has been in the Maine legislature since 1964 and is renowned for his institutional knowledge and he complains that with all the new people more power ends up in the hands of lobbyists and legislative staff (since they end up being the only people with experience, they end up actually writing the legislation). If the people want to term limit their own rep they can do that -- that is what elections are for. they just need to vote against the incumbent in the primary (and make sure the incumbent isn't unopposed in the primary). If people have a very effective senator with senior committee positions and they are happy with them, they should get to keep them.

the real problem is incumbents sail through their primary, and if you are ideologically aligned with their party you are probably going to vote for them, so people rarely get voted out. They should have to go through a real primary, defend their record to their party, with ranked choice voting to keep a split primary vote from nominating a crazy person with very narrow appeal.