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Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

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  • Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

    Originally posted by burd View Post
    Years ago, prior to passage of the ACA, I served on the board of a local, critical access hospital. As part of my training, I attended a medical conference put on by the Estes Park Institute. This conference was highly regarded in the industry, and the attendees were about 40% physicians with the balance consisting of Administrators and Trustees. A conservative bunch, nearly all of whom had profited greatly from the existing system. At the four-day conference I attended, the overwhelming message was that the health care delivery and financing system in our country was going to change because it had to change, whether the medical industry wanted it to or not. Costs were rising at 7% or more per year, and people's deductibles were rising in response. Medical tourism (people being flown to other countries for surgical procedures and recovery) was on the rise because medical care in this country was becoming less and less competitive with providers in other countries who could provide the same level of care. These were not politicians saying this. These were people who had every reason to continue the status quo. Yet they were saying change was coming whether medical providers liked it or not and that medical institutions better be prepared for change.

    Maybe Obama could have come up with a better system. Perhaps the Romney plan was better or should have been adopted in larger part. But it is a convenient fantasy to hold on to the belief that change was not coming or that the "old system" could have been left alone to everyone's benefit.
    This.

    The great failure of Obamacare in my mind is the lack of oversight. Congress has spent 100% of its time on repeal, and 0% of it's time on reform. You can blame the Republicans for that.
    **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

    Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
    Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

    Comment


    • Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

      Originally posted by rufus View Post
      I guess president of the Harvard Law Review and 12 years as a law school professor are both inferior positions to "community organizer". Not to mention state and US senator.
      I've run a collegiate classroom for longer than 12 years; that's not as important as the community organizer, honestly. (After about 5 it becomes rote.)

      And I acknowledged his two years as the junior Senator from IL.
      The preceding post may contain trigger words and is not safe-space approved. <-- Virtue signaling.

      North Dakota Hockey:

      Comment


      • Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

        Originally posted by rufus View Post
        And yet, you're on here defending him and the mindset that supports him constantly. With all the critical thinking and emotional depth of a six year old.
        Really, because I'd be hard-pressed to think of an instance where I actually defended Donald Trump, here or anywhere else. I think the closest I came was awhile back when he made the snarky comment about the Russian hackers of the DNC emails, telling them that while they were in there they should look for HRC's missing emails. When everyone went gaga claiming Trump was calling on a foreign power to hack HRC, I called it for what it was -- a stupid, snarky comment.

        I have come here and defended Trump's supporters, but I don't think that's the same thing. I've tried to explain my thoughts/theories as to why they think or feel the way they do, and argued against the common perception that they are uneducated, racist hicks who have let themselves be led astray by Fox News and the right wing blogosphere. I've done this not out of love or support for Trump, but because I know many people who do support him. Very good people. Individuals who are highly educated and very successful. People who have raised great children. People who haven't thought twice about hiring minorities. People who give up their weekends to build homes with Habitat for Humanity.

        When they've told me there is simply no way they can vote for Clinton and they're going to vote for Trump, I haven't tried to belittle them. I haven't accused them of supporting a racist (and the implied racist charge that goes with that accusation). I just listen to their reasons and try to understand.

        I've posted here before I have no intention of voting for Trump. I think he's an azzclown. I have no intention of voting for Clinton either. I've made my peace with the fact that I will vote for Johnson/Weld. It is a protest vote, which I normally would avoid. But when both parties are heading in the wrong direction, I think it is an acceptable decision. It is also founded in faith in the Republic. I'm not going to get hysterical about either a Clinton or a Trump presidency, as some have chosen to do. We'll survive. Toronto has survived Rob Ford. Maine has survived Paul Le Page. We'll survive regardless who wins in November.
        That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

        Comment


        • Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

          "We will survive" isnt good enough I am sorry. A Drumpf Presidency will make the 8 years of Dubya look like the Golden Age. Christ the economy alone will go to crap. And I am not going to risk the things I care about because the Republic will survive. Proving a point isnt worth the grief...
          "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
          -aparch

          "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
          -INCH

          Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
          -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

          Comment


          • Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

            538 is approaching full panic:

            Dave Rothschild @DavMacRiot: "Something wrong with @FiveThirtyEight forecast. If you enjoy roller-coasters, please jump on, otherwise, follow https://t.co/iVgKTSRLoR

            Nate Silver @NateSilver538:Never seen otherwise-smart people in so much denial about something as they are about Trump's chances. Same mistake as primaries, Brexit.

            To put it another way, the burden of proof should be on people who DON'T show a competitive race, because that requires MORE assumptions.

            Instead, there are a lot of *implicit* and *unexamined* assumptions that the race will shift back to Clinton. That's dangerous.
            “Demolish the bridges behind you… then there is no choice but to build again.”

            Live Radio from 100.3

            Comment


            • Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

              Originally posted by aparch View Post
              538 is approaching full panic:

              Dave Rothschild @DavMacRiot: "Something wrong with @FiveThirtyEight forecast. If you enjoy roller-coasters, please jump on, otherwise, follow https://t.co/iVgKTSRLoR

              Nate Silver @NateSilver538:Never seen otherwise-smart people in so much denial about something as they are about Trump's chances. Same mistake as primaries, Brexit.

              To put it another way, the burden of proof should be on people who DON'T show a competitive race, because that requires MORE assumptions.

              Instead, there are a lot of *implicit* and *unexamined* assumptions that the race will shift back to Clinton. That's dangerous.
              Complacency is going to be the death knell...if either side thinks they can sit back and wait things out they got another thing coming.

              You would think Hillary would have learned from 2008 but she hasnt...and now her campaign is starting to resemble the Houston Oilers in the 1993 playoffs...
              "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
              -aparch

              "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
              -INCH

              Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
              -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

              Comment


              • Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

                Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                "We will survive" isnt good enough I am sorry. A Drumpf Presidency will make the 8 years of Dubya look like the Golden Age. Christ the economy alone will go to crap. And I am not going to risk the things I care about because the Republic will survive. Proving a point isnt worth the grief...
                Just remember no matter what happened those 8 years to 42% of the electorate those 8 years were better than anything Obama gave them.
                **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

                Comment


                • Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

                  I would ordinarily agree with Hovey, since I'm just disposed that way. But what came of Bush II's presidency, particularly his decision to go into Iraq, makes it impossible to be dismissive about what can happen with the wrong guy in charge. And Trump, with his ignorance, arrogance and recklessness, is far more dangerous than Bush was (or appeared to be) with regard to foreign policy. I do think we may be mistaken as to how conservative Trump would be on some domestic issues, since he has some fairly liberal past and will obviously say anything that will sell or will gain him attention. But the foreign policy risk is scary with that guy. Bad decisions there and a LOT of people pay.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

                    Also, reading some of the replies to his tweets are interesting. Lots of "Oh you're just anti-Hillary," "I always add 10 points to the Dems with your polls," "a three point lead is totally safe!" and my favorite reply: "The volatility of your model will be prove wrong after the election. Race totally safe for Hillary."


                    Jesus, even Nate Silver admitted his models called Trump the Republican nominee and he discredited it. And his Brexit numbers showed it being such a close race, yet others dismissed it. Similar to this campaign.
                    “Demolish the bridges behind you… then there is no choice but to build again.”

                    Live Radio from 100.3

                    Comment


                    • Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

                      Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                      Complacency is going to be the death knell...if either side thinks they can sit back and wait things out they got another thing coming.

                      You would think Hillary would have learned from 2008 but she hasnt...and now her campaign is starting to resemble the Houston Oilers in the 1993 playoffs...
                      No, it's resembling the Kasich and Rubio and Cruz campaigns from just a few months ago. People standing around asking, "how is this possible?"
                      That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

                        Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                        It is also founded in faith in the Republic. I'm not going to get hysterical about either a Clinton or a Trump presidency, as some have chosen to do.
                        I'm kind of here, but I've noticed Trump is always touting Nielson ratings and the Clintons love polls and focus groups. Maybe they're both about as likely to make a bunch of decisions simply based on the popularity of a given idea. Which of course puts things back in the hands of an electorate that thought giving us these two horrible choices was a good idea in the first place... err... perhaps I should panic more after all.
                        Originally posted by WiscTJK
                        I'm with Wisko and Tim.
                        Originally posted by Timothy A
                        Other than Wisko McBadgerton and Badger Bob, who is universally loved by all?

                        Comment


                        • Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

                          I hate to interrupt the Bedwetter Caucus (Kep, Scooby and ND) but we're starting to get early voting data in here:

                          https://apnews.com/b0c860b85d884b6abb23af580ae5b0c1

                          This is where campaigns are won or lost. You can read it yourself and come to your own conclusions...
                          Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                          Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                          "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

                          Comment


                          • Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

                            Originally posted by Wisko McBadgerton View Post
                            I'm kind of here, but I've noticed Trump is always touting Nielson ratings and the Clintons love polls and focus groups. Maybe they're both about as likely to make a bunch of decisions simply based on the popularity of a given idea. Which of course puts things back in the hands of an electorate that thought giving us these two horrible choices was a good idea in the first place... err... perhaps I should panic more after all.
                            I don't know Donald Trump. All I know is what I've read about him, and how I've seen him depicted in things like the 30 For 30 movie on the USFL, and Bryant Gumbel's stories on Trumps failed golf course plans.

                            But my sense from what I've read about Trump is he is all plan, no action. He's a great guy for saying, "we're going to do this, and we're going to build that, and people are going to love it, and it's going to be great and everyone will call me a hero,....." but then never following through. The world is filled with empty lots or buildings, half built golf course resorts and casinos that were Trump's great ideas, but never actually got done. As I think just about every former President will tell you, it is really, really hard as President to get your ideas implemented. A heck of a lot harder than it is in the private sector or business world.

                            I've written it here before, and it bears repeating. I think Donald Trump only wants to be POTUS to put it on his resume. I don't think he actually wants to do anything as President. That's why he told Kasich that he'd let Kasich control foreign and domestic policy if he agreed to be V.P., as so hilariously pointed out by John Oliver. In a Trump presidency, we're probably much more likely to be harmed by inactivity as actual action.

                            To my way of thinking, the worst thing about a Trump presidency is simply the loss of respect around the world that comes with doing something stupid. There is no question the rest of the world will look at us like, "really, Donald Trump? Jeebus." You know, it's kind of the same way we look at Maine or Texas right now. But that can be corrected.
                            That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

                              Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                              I don't know Donald Trump. All I know is what I've read about him, and how I've seen him depicted in things like the 30 For 30 movie on the USFL, and Bryant Gumbel's stories on Trumps failed golf course plans.

                              But my sense from what I've read about Trump is he is all plan, no action. He's a great guy for saying, "we're going to do this, and we're going to build that, and people are going to love it, and it's going to be great and everyone will call me a hero,....." but then never following through. The world is filled with empty lots or buildings, half built golf course resorts and casinos that were Trump's great ideas, but never actually got done. As I think just about every former President will tell you, it is really, really hard as President to get your ideas implemented. A heck of a lot harder than it is in the private sector or business world.

                              I've written it here before, and it bears repeating. I think Donald Trump only wants to be POTUS to put it on his resume. I don't think he actually wants to do anything as President. That's why he told Kasich that he'd let Kasich control foreign and domestic policy if he agreed to be V.P., as so hilariously pointed out by John Oliver. In a Trump presidency, we're probably much more likely to be harmed by inactivity as actual action.

                              To my way of thinking, the worst thing about a Trump presidency is simply the loss of respect around the world that comes with doing something stupid. There is no question the rest of the world will look at us like, "really, Donald Trump? Jeebus." You know, it's kind of the same way we look at Maine or Texas right now. But that can be corrected.
                              You can tiptoe all you want. The facts are that what you've said here is a complete discounting of 2000-2008. That's clear. And you're not alone. A lot of people are doing that right now. Hell, they did it during McCain's run and Romney's run. Until the Republican Party steps up and starts governing occasionally any of them that get elected pushes the needle closer to or more into the red.

                              What this election should be about is what the policies of the United States should be and how to get there. Not about the length of Trump's dick. Which is what it is about now on both sides.
                              **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                              Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                              Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

                                Originally posted by Rover View Post
                                I hate to interrupt the Bedwetter Caucus (Kep, Scooby and ND) but we're starting to get early voting data in here:

                                https://apnews.com/b0c860b85d884b6abb23af580ae5b0c1

                                This is where campaigns are won or lost. You can read it yourself and come to your own conclusions...
                                That is encouraging...lets see if it holds as more early ballots come in.
                                "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                                -aparch

                                "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                                -INCH

                                Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                                -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                                Comment

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